Who should Sasha have stayed with? | Golden Skate

Who should Sasha have stayed with?

Who should Sasha have stayed with?

  • John Nicks

    Votes: 35 46.7%
  • Tatiana Tarasova

    Votes: 31 41.3%
  • Robin Wagner

    Votes: 6 8.0%
  • Other coach

    Votes: 3 4.0%

  • Total voters
    75
R

riverflows

Guest
Inspired by a comment in this thread.

Which coach should Sasha have stayed with for the best long-term success? Was it a mistake to switch from one coach to the other or one coach back to another?
 
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JonnyCoop

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2003
Definitely Mr. Nicks. Near as I can tell, the detours to work with Wagner and Tarasova were ultimately pointless; and Wagner didn't help matters by taking a well-choreographed program and making a total mess of it.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
JonnyCoop said:
Near as I can tell, the detours to work with Wagner and Tarasova were ultimately pointless

Perhaps, but she may have learned other things that she ultimately might not have had she stayed with one coach. Now, whether it contributed to her success (or lack of it, depending on how you look at things), only she knows.
 

SeaniBu

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 19, 2006
Red Dog said:
Perhaps.... only she knows.

I mean this respectfully RD, I don't think she does. And Joesitz was on with the "demons" comment. I can only speculate what he meant, and I don't chance at putting words in his mouth, but that is something I feel fit what I saw every LP (different face in the SPs) she skated out and took the applause - yet I have only payed really close attention to her for 3 years I would say. Just a different look about her every time but the "soup challenge" in Dec. 05 that I saw / noticed. JMO
 

JonnyCoop

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2003
Red Dog said:
Perhaps, but she may have learned other things that she ultimately might not have had she stayed with one coach. Now, whether it contributed to her success (or lack of it, depending on how you look at things), only she knows.

Well, perhaps, but has she seemed to have APPLIED any of these other things she may have learned?

This is going to sound like a bash, and it's not intended as such, but IMHO Sasha has probably evolved LESS as a skater or performer in the last 6 years, since her Senior Nats debut in 2000, than most other skaters, any category, in that same time period. Have we seen Sasha do anything different than the same basic thing she was doing in 2000? I personally have not, but if anyone else has, I welcome them pointing it out. I personally find nothing wrong with her skating, either then or now, but if she's learned "other things" I'm hard pressed to try and come up with what they might be.
 

Jaana

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Country
Finland
I voted for other coach, but don´t know who that might be. Maybe Callaghan would be good for her jumping?

Mr. Nicks is a great coach and has brought Sasha as far as it is possible under him. Now Sasha needs a technical coach.

About Tarasova, I never understood the reason for Sasha to select her as a coach. As a choreographer yes, but definetely not as a coach. Sasha did not need more artistry, she had it already. What she needed was a strong jumping coach and of course great choreography.
 

JonnyCoop

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2003
I was kinda thinking Callaghan, too, but I think Sasha might bristle being coached by that mucfh of a control freak. Then again, he did wonders with Bobek..
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
JonnyCoop said:
Definitely Mr. Nicks. Near as I can tell, the detours to work with Wagner and Tarasova were ultimately pointless; and Wagner didn't help matters by taking a well-choreographed program and making a total mess of it.
How easily they forget. TT's Swan Lake got silver at Nats. Wagner's got lst in the QR at Worlds. Those are facts

I can not understand why fans insist that Sasha's problems are because of the coaches and choreographers and not hers personally..

To me, the problem lies not in the coaches but in Sasha herself. Am I the only one to believe this (except Peggy)??

Joe
 

JonnyCoop

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2003
Joesitz said:
How easily they forget. TT's Swan Lake got silver at Nats. Wagner's got lst in the QR at Worlds. Those are facts


Joe

Just because it got results doesn't make it a better program. Plenty of mish-mash messes get scored highly and end up on podiums. As I recall, after the unveiling of "the great rework", the responses on this board to it were for the most part, extremely negative.

And IMHO Qualifying Round results are only relevant if someone really tanks in them. After all, Mikkeline Kierkgaard was 2nd in Worlds QR in 2000 -- didn't help her much in the long run, tho.
 

Jaana

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Country
Finland
Joesitz said:
I can not understand why fans insist that Sasha's problems are because of the coaches and choreographers and not hers personally..

To me, the problem lies not in the coaches but in Sasha herself. Am I the only one to believe this (except Peggy)??

Joe

Well, I agree that a lot of the problem lies in Sasha herself, but not everything. One also needs a coach that is able to fix some parts in that problem. As I mentioned above, Tarasova was a wrong choice, because Sasha needed help in her jumping and not in artistry. I also believe that Sasha needs discipline in her work. If Callaghan managed something with a big problem child like Bobek, I´d expect him manage to do wonders with Sasha.
 
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Mafke

Medalist
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
Joesitz said:
To me, the problem lies not in the coaches but in Sasha herself. Am I the only one to believe this (except Peggy)??

I'm not sure what 'the problem' is beyond the idea that Cohen's ambitions may be a lot stronger than her abilities and/or work ethic. Nothing to do about the first and for the second only a tyrant with some power over her (to keep her from bolting to easier pastures) would do any good.

But then I never bought into the Sasha-Hype and I think she's done about as well as I expected. I never looked at her and thought "best ever!", I thought "probable world medalist, probably more than once and maybe world champion with a little luck".
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
I really thought Sasha was special when I first saw her in that Cleveland Nats. However, after taking a year off to heal her back she came back to Skate America with a Quad.... well may be a popped double salchow. I then thought of her as being feisty which I liked, but that didn't lead to anything special in 2002 Olys. 03, 04, 05 did not bring in the gold. She still was a very excellent skater through those years, but she did not get her dreams fulfilled.

I can not blame that on any of the coaches or choreographers. JMO.

Joe
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
and her "journey" is really no different from any other skater...just Kwan and Slute. jmo
 

Mafke

Medalist
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
Joesitz said:
I really thought Sasha was special when I first saw her in that Cleveland Nats. .... .... but that didn't lead to anything special in 2002 Olys. 03, 04, 05 did not bring in the gold. She still was a very excellent skater through those years, but she did not get her dreams fulfilled.

Joe

Living in Europe in those dark and terrible BYT (Before Youtube) ages and so I didn't see her until SLC, where I thought she was very, very good but not the greatest thing since buttered popcorn.

In objective terms she _is_ special. Three straight world medals and an olympic medal is an outstanding record. How many gifted skaters never get a single world medal? Again, I think she's lived up to her potential fine, she just hasn't lived up to (her own? other peoples'? hype about her).
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Mafke said:
In objective terms she _is_ special. Three straight world medals and an olympic medal is an outstanding record. How many gifted skaters never get a single world medal? Again, I think she's lived up to her potential fine, she just hasn't lived up to (her own? other peoples'? hype about her).
ITA, Mafke. Why the discussion comes up so much is because some posters believe there is only one gold medal and that is the OGM. Silly, but that is true.
Alfred Hitchcock never won an Oscar.

Joe
 

April

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 4, 2003
Joesitz said:
How easily they forget. TT's Swan Lake got silver at Nats. Wagner's got lst in the QR at Worlds. Those are facts

I can not understand why fans insist that Sasha's problems are because of the coaches and choreographers and not hers personally..

To me, the problem lies not in the coaches but in Sasha herself. Am I the only one to believe this (except Peggy)??

Joe


I agree. Sasha worked with three world class coaches. Going to another coach wouldn't solve her inner "demons". At any rate, she did improve under Tarasova, at least I enjoyed the "The Swan" . I can't think of a Wagner or Nicks program that comes up to "The Swan" standard.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
April said:
I agree. Sasha worked with three world class coaches. Going to another coach wouldn't solve her inner "demons". At any rate, she did improve under Tarasova, at least I enjoyed the "The Swan" . I can't think of a Wagner or Nicks program that comes up to "The Swan" standard.
Does anyone have the Wagner version on tape? I would swear it is identical to the TT original except for the opening.

Much of this thread is not so much about Sasha as it is about the original and edited versions of Swan Lake.

I think the best answer to the topic would be Nicks coaching with TT choreographing.

Joe
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
I think Sasha needed the coaching changes to get her where she did.

We will never know how her skating would have gone had she stayed with Nicks and maybe things would have worked out the same but i don't think Sasha would have cleaned up her basic skating and especially her edges had she not worked with Tarasova. I voted for Tarasova because the improvements Sasha showed while under Tarasova, i don't think she's shown under any other coach.

Ant
 

Lonewolf

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Joesitz said:
To me, the problem lies not in the coaches but in Sasha herself.


I guess I am confused. Apparently Sasha’s best season was the 2003-04 season according to Wikipedia. It sounds to me that she changed coaches during this season going from Tatiana Tarasova to Robin Wagner. At least I think that is what happened. Anyway, I guess the combination of these two coaches has some effect on Sasha, for she improved. But after reading what Joe said of Sasha, I have to agree a lot of Sasha’s problems lie with herself.
 
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