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Thread: Region Hopping

  1. #16
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    It seems a little extreme to me that parents would go out and buy a house in the Pacific Northwest just so their daughter might have a better chance of finishing third in novices.

    As for the World Championships, the problem is that the event is the ISU World Championships. Each ISU member has the right to send its champion to worlds, however bad he or she may be. That is one of the perks you get when you sign up and pay your dues.

    The idea of an open championship where the athletes are at center stage instead of the member federations -- that would require a complete re-thinking of what the ISU is all about.

  2. #17
    Go NJ Devils
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    It seems a little extreme to me that parents would go out and buy a house in the Pacific Northwest just so their daughter might have a better chance of finishing third in novices.
    You haven't been following real estate appreciation in the Pacific Northwest lately

  3. #18
    Rinkside
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    The house prices have been going up unless you go somewhere like montana or whyoming, but who wants to live there. And no matter where you live it is still and house and VERY expensive

  4. #19
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Ok so if as a person you are against the idea of region hopping, where do you stand on country swapping? Surely the same principle no? Do you think Tanith Belbin should be forced to go back to Canada and skate there and make Ben Agosto find a new partner?

    Or Triffun Sivanovic - if he wants to get to worlds he should beat out the male skaters at home right?

    Where did you stand on the petition put in by that dance team leading up to the Olympics?

    Ant

  5. #20
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    I think they should skate where they legally reside. If that is the US, then they should skate for the US. I don't care for skaters who never live or plan on living anywhere but the US, but compete for some other country because they can't make it here.

  6. #21
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    It seems a little extreme to me that parents would go out and buy a house in the Pacific Northwest just so their daughter might have a better chance of finishing third in novices.

    As for the World Championships, the problem is that the event is the ISU World Championships. Each ISU member has the right to send its champion to worlds, however bad he or she may be. That is one of the perks you get when you sign up and pay your dues.

    The idea of an open championship where the athletes are at center stage instead of the member federations -- that would require a complete re-thinking of what the ISU is all about.
    I'm sure we are all aware of that.

    We are just discussing hopping regions and other sundry matters of skaters trying to get to their Nats or Worlds. The ISU is a well established Organization which has organized figure skating based on nationality rather than on skaters themselves. We are not trying to change anything. (Impossible anyway.) It's a discussion on what the purpose of a Nationals or World Championships means?

    Is the purpose of the ISU to come up with the most proficient country? or to come up with the most proficient skater(s)?

    If one believes in the former, then the ISU is doing the right thing by limiting the number of participants from any given nation. The USFS has certain powers and it regulates its own Nationals. If it allows region hopping, then perhaps more proficient contestants will emerge. If not, lesser proficient contestants have a shot at the Nats. What should it be?

    In the cases of the ISU where nationality is the limiting factor one has to think of a skater like Yukina Ota. A beautiful skater who will never see the World Championships and yet, if permitted to participate, would more than likely be a top 10 skater in the World.

    Some skaters have been successful in country hopping, but I don't think Yukina will be that lucky.

    Joe

  7. #22
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    I'm sure we are all aware of that.

    We are just discussing hopping regions and other sundry matters of skaters trying to get to their Nats or Worlds. The ISU is a well established Organization which has organized figure skating based on nationality rather than on skaters themselves. We are not trying to change anything. (Impossible anyway.) It's a discussion on what the purpose of a Nationals or World Championships means?

    Is the purpose of the ISU to come up with the most proficient country? or to come up with the most proficient skater(s)?

    If one believes in the former, then the ISU is doing the right thing by limiting the number of participants from any given nation. The USFS has certain powers and it regulates its own Nationals. If it allows region hopping, then perhaps more proficient contestants will emerge. If not, lesser proficient contestants have a shot at the Nats. What should it be?

    In the cases of the ISU where nationality is the limiting factor one has to think of a skater like Yukina Ota. A beautiful skater who will never see the World Championships and yet, if permitted to participate, would more than likely be a top 10 skater in the World.

    Some skaters have been successful in country hopping, but I don't think Yukina will be that lucky.

    Joe
    A point well made about the depth of the Japanese ladies - as it has been in the US too. BUt more importantly for Yukina Ota - she needs to get the higher level triples back, last i heard she was managing toe and salchow but none of the other triples were there. Even with her incredible presentation skills she'd still only be middle placing at worlds like Fleur Maxwell.

    Ant

  8. #23
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb
    A point well made about the depth of the Japanese ladies - as it has been in the US too. BUt more importantly for Yukina Ota - she needs to get the higher level triples back, last i heard she was managing toe and salchow but none of the other triples were there. Even with her incredible presentation skills she'd still only be middle placing at worlds like Fleur Maxwell.Ant
    This was not about Yukina Ota per se. It was about every skater's dream to skate in the Worlds (or in their own Nats).

    She would definitely, imo, be a candidate for a top 10 finish. I don't want to go into all the skaters who will NOT be at the next Worlds, because that would change my point, which is

    limiting the entrants of certain countries so we get a country winner or allow qualifying skaters beyond their nationalities to skate in the Wolrds.

    There's no clear answer to that. It was just to bring out the desire of 3rd tier skaters wanting to get to their Nationals by region hopping.

    Joe

  9. #24
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    As for the World Championships, the problem is that the event is the ISU World Championships. Each ISU member has the right to send its champion to worlds, however bad he or she may be. That is one of the perks you get when you sign up and pay ]your dues.
    And we must bow down to the Court of the ISU and kiss Cinquanta's ring. Definitely. that's some perk.

    The idea of an open championship where the athletes are at center stage instead of the member federations -- that would require a complete re-thinking of what the ISU is all about.
    And golf and tennis should begin to rethink about what their associations are all about.

    Joe

  10. #25
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    And we must bow down to the Court of the ISU and kiss Cinquanta's ring. Definitely. that's some perk.


    And golf and tennis should begin to rethink about what their associations are all about.

    Joe
    That wasn't the point MM was making - he merely said that turning skating into an athlete based competitive structure rather than than the the way the ISU would have it would require a re-thinking, he never said that would be a good or a bad thing, just different to the system in place now...

    Ant

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