I'm not comparing them per se, I'm just trying to make the point that often people who have tremendous natural talent tend to take it more for granted than people who really had to work harder to get to the same place.Originally Posted by chuckm
I'm not comparing them per se, I'm just trying to make the point that often people who have tremendous natural talent tend to take it more for granted than people who really had to work harder to get to the same place.
I don't think you can get to the level of 3 time US National Champion WITHOUT having a highly developed sense of competitive spirit.
Johnny may not have quite the total killer instinct of his present and former Russian champion counterparts, but those guys came from a different system, mentality, and country - an ideology where there are only two placements at an event: gold medal winner....and losers. I think when Plushenko and Yagudin got silver or bronze at an event, there was little joy in it. They only 'see' one position - the top of the podium. In America, we seem a bit more relaxed on that attitude, for better or worse.
For me, it was after his second nationals that he realized how much he was appreciated. Fans galore with e-mails daily telling him how wonderful he is. What does a teenage kid do with that? Let's face it, his international skating went downhill. I don't believe it is the end as it was for Bowman, but he should start working to improve his skills. The GPs will tell us more than the Nats will.
The Soviet system of skating with its emphasis on winning for the glory of Mother Russia worked for many years. There are now attempts to recreate that through capitalism. There is talent there but can they do it for the glory of themselves alone? While Johnny is a Rusophile (nothing wrong with that), he is not really a part of the Soviet system.Johnny may not have quite the total killer instinct of his present and former Russian champion counterparts, but those guys came from a different system, mentality, and country - an ideology where there are only two placements at an event: gold medal winner....and losers. I think when Plushenko and Yagudin got silver or bronze at an event, there was little joy in it. They only 'see' one position - the top of the podium. In America, we seem a bit more relaxed on that attitude, for better or worse.
Joe
It sounds like Johnny is excited about this season. I hope he remains injury free. Can you imagine how GREAT Johnny will be if he is in the zone and confident and injury free???
Do you think that Evan will have a chance to win nationals this year (as he is skating again to Carmen?)
As I like both Weir and Lysacek equally, to me it does not matter who wins the gold & who gets the silver at US Nationals. Besides, I believe that it is much better to peak and to give one´s best performance in the season at Worlds rather than at Nationals which is about two months earlier. The right timing is really important in sport.
Last edited by Jaana; 08-09-2006 at 03:24 AM.
Well, I think that to win a gold medal for one´s country may be important for an athlete, but more important it is to win it for oneself. Whatever a skater might be saying about the matter, LOL, the human nature surely is about the same everywhere. An Olympic gold medal or Worlds gold (or multiple gold medals) surely have brought advantages (and also privileges e.g. in Soviet Union that were not otherwise possible) for athletes in lots of countries, I´d imagine.
I also think that for skaters that are talented enough in presentation and technically to be able to win in competitions, only the gold medal exists. Silver or bronze are a loss surely. For lesser skaters (= those not expected to win) a silver or bronze medal is very welcome.
Last edited by Jaana; 08-09-2006 at 03:20 AM.
I think the media are hard on him. He is a very good skater but he skates in a very difficult era with Plushenko, Lambiel, Joubert, and many others. It is a tough event to find spots on the podium in.
There are 2 instances where I think Weir showed a lack of competitive fire. The 1st was at Nationals a few years go (I think?). He hurt himself during a jump and then went sliding into the boards. He pretty much took himself off the ice at that point. I realize he was hurt and probably shaken; it's just the way he did it. We've seen lots of incidents where skaters have had accidents during warmups and gotten back on the ice to do their best. Bowman hurt himself during his LP at the Olympics, but continued the routine without the tricks and limped off the ice.
At last year's World's, he was tired and hurting. I really felt that his performance lacked any semblance of truly trying to put himself out there. I realize that an Olympic year is tough, but if you are going, then you should try to do your best. He did learn from his previous experience and didn't walk off, but he really didn't seem to be trying to motivate himself. Instead of telling himself to 'push for it', he seemed to be telling himself 'I'm tired'.
It's tough to always perform at the optimum, but you have to at least always push yourself to do the best that you can at that moment. I think he gets discouraged too easily when he doesn't perform and/or skate to his expectations. When Johnny's on, he's magical.
JMHO!!!!
Weir had very painful back spasms, which pretty much took him out of medal contention this past Worlds. He did the best he could under the circumstances. He wasn't just 'tired and hurting', he was fighting to stand up straight!
I do NOT understand why people keep bringing up Nationals 2003. That was over three years ago, and Johnny has won THREE National titles since then. Sheesh! Talk about unforgiving!
I think some posters bring it up to show that Johnny can move on after adversary.
Joe
No, most of the time when that incident is brought up it is to illustrate a character flaw in Johnny. Heyang's post used that incident to show a "lack of competitive fire".
I don't recall seeing the same type of "killer instinct" between rival Russian pairs teams that I saw between Yagudin and Plushenko -- and I recall that the rivalry between Irina and Maria seemed a lot more "killer" than the Irina/Michelle rivalry. Was I missing something? (I want to know if the instinct is truly a result of the Russian system or a result of personal likes/dislikes)
Weir has not yet earned the right to be compared to Bowman and Harding. Harding won a world silver, and won her lone U.S title beating that years World champion and next years Olympic champion Kristi Yamaguchi. Bowman won two World medals, back to back years. Harding and Bowman each have a 4th place finish from the Olympics. Weir will be hard pressed to match the careers of Bowman and Harding it looks like so he should not be compared to them.
If Weir manages to win 2 world medals in back to back years like Bowman did, or manages to defeat that years World Champion to win U.S Nationals in addition to a World silver it will be a big surprise.
Irina and Michelle have always had a cordial relationship, but Irina and Maria B. were bitter enemies. From an early age, Irina was the "favored child" in the Russian system, while Maria had to fight tooth and nail for every assignment she got. Maria never received the same accolades that Irina did, even after she won Russia's first Ladies World gold---two years before Irina.
I think the drive to be #1 is very important in Russia, and it is now up for grabs for both the Ladies and the Men. In Pairs and Dance, there has always been an established pecking order, and the Pettikhs are the #1 Pair (at least for this season), and Domnina/Shabalin are the Dance heirs apparent.
Last edited by chuckm; 08-10-2006 at 02:58 PM.
Does being number one really mean much with the current group of singles skaters in Russia. I mean none of them are that good, lets face it. Sokolova has a chance to medal at world events still. The rest of them that I can think of Griazev, etc.....dont. Volchkova a few years back may have been a contender but not anymore.
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