Layback spins

[skate expert]

Who do you think had the best layback spins versus the worst layback spins? With the new rules, skaters are adding variations, many of which are not overly attractive, but now its all about points, it seems such a pure simple spin like we used to see will be a thing of the past. Here are my top 10 layback spinners, past and present. And as a special bonus, Ill include some of the worst too !!

BEST

1. Angela Nikodinov ( the best ever)
2. Sasha Cohen
3. Peggy Fleming
4. Tiffany Chin
5. Elaine Zayak
6. Dorothy Hamill
7. Lucinda Ruh
8. Sarah Hughes
9. Caryn Kadavy
10. Irina Slutksaya/Janet Lynn/Yuka Sato


WORST

1, Diana Poth
2, Kira Ivanova
3. Michele Kwan (sorry, but its true)
4. Jill Trenary
5. Liz Manley
6. Claudia Leistner
7. Surya Bonaly
8. Olga Markova
9. Maria Butyraskaya
10. Rudy Galindo (HAHAHA)

[SeaniBu]

The most beautiful picture I have seen of a Layback was Sarah. Her position and the composition of the pic. I always thought MK made up for "how far" by great (and expectable IMO - OMG that takes me back to a discussion in 1998 with the waitresses) arm positions and what she would do with them. Yah how far back...NSI, but she has great leg extension during (recently learned that is referred to as attitude.

Ira, Yuka and Sasha, I agree with 100%.

Let me see if I can find the one of Sarah.....

Sorry it took so long, well not that it matters, it has been slow around here lately anyhoo......
http://www.hwbhost.com/images/saraflowerlayback.jpg
... when I found it it was only at 1.75, so I thought I would get it a little bigger fer' ya'

[Mathman]

Great picture of Sarah, Sean. And the lighting and compostition of the photograph is exceptional, too.

The "attitute position" is a ballet term. It looks like this:

http://images.dance.net/images/85/onstage.gif

http://www.claudia-alfieri.com/images/attitude.jpg

Here is Michelle:

2000

2001

2003

2005

Michelle is not as flexible in her back as some other skaters are, so she also experimented with a "heart position" with her leg down and her hands clasped behind her back. This looked pretty in motion, but drew criticism because it wasn't the "classic layback position."

Lowered leg

Under the CoP you have to do a slew of diferent positions in the same spin to get a level three or four, so the pure layback, a-la-Peggy Fleming et. al., is a thing of the past.

For comparison, here's Sasha:

Sasha

MM

[brinababy87]

I admit to being gaga over Sasha's laybacks, although I do enjoy some pretty laybacks by less flexible skaters, like Angela and Sarah.

These pictures, however, are my favorite layback pictures.
Layback 1
Layback 2

[passion]

I am not a fan of the lowered leg on anybody. Somehow, it isn't as impressive or pretty for me. Brinababy87, the first pic of Sasha is gorgeous. I think Alissa Cziny has the most gorgeous layback of all. What I have noticed in hers and the first pic you posted is that the back is not completely flat. One shoulder is lower than the other. Is that acceptable to do in a layback?

[Mathman]

Here is Peggy Fleming in 1968:

http://www.peggyfleming.net/images/peggyfade.jpg

And here she is in 1998!

http://images.google.com/images?q=tb...al/fleming.jpg

[jesslily]

Sasha's layback spin position is stunning, but I think Angela N. has the best. It's so natural and in harmony. It looks like any good skater should be able to achieve that result even she does not have extraordinary flexibility. But we all know that the great layback spin needs natural talent and lot of hard work.

[76olympics]

I remember hearing Cecelia Colledge recount in "Reflections on Ice" about the evolution of the layback spin. She took lessons from a contortionist veteran from the circus and had quite a time achieving that necessary flexibility!

[Joesitz]

I think what posters are saying is that they like the ballet-like 'attitude' position in the layback. A ballet teacher as well as an acrobatic teacher could work on that for a student. It's not all that flexibility required. However, to do it on skates would take a bit work more so than on the dance floor.

I don't think figure skating requires the ballet-like 'attitude' position. It's more of a bend in the waist for fs.

Joe

[MKFSfan]

I agree that as far as traditional layback positions go, Sarah and Angela have the best:

Angela: http://www.balletsecretsforskaters.c...amous/spin.jpg
Sarah: http://www.dianesrink.com/sarah/gall.../sh01w0422.jpg

I loved AP's, too, classic and sideways catch foot:

http://img7.photobucket.com/albums/v...nnpatrice6.jpg
http://img7.photobucket.com/albums/v...nnpatrice7.jpg

As far as other layback positions that meet COP criteria, I adore Alissa's positions!

http://www.figureskatersonline.com/A.../05nats/6.html
http://www.figureskatersonline.com/a...06Nats/10.html

I'm not crazy about laybacks that seem really extreme, with lots of flexibility. I like a layback to look soft and classical, even if their backs aren't parallel to the ice and the skate practically touching the head. Sasha tends to get too extreme for MY personal taste, BUT I really adored her layback sequence (or whatever you want to call it) from last season (2004-05). I thought her catchfoot was amazing:
http://www.sashafans.com/media/galle...ers_short2.jpg

I loved Michelle's layback from Hands, I think that's when she also debuted her dropped leg layback (or maybe it was Kissing you???).

[passion]

Correct me if I'm wrong, you don't bend at the waist because that causes you to stick out your tummy. The bend occurs at the hips as you push your hips forward.

Also, I think the layback position depends on the technique you're taught as well. For instance, my coach taught me to push the hips forward. The effect of this is that the thigh is close to the skating leg. So, how does Sasha and Alissa get the free leg so high?

[OwenEvans]

I've always thought Dorothy Hamill had a great layback. Not a "classic leg position" a la Dick Button, but really great back position and, like all her spins, great speed and excellent centre.

[Kasey]

I agree with Nikodinov having the best of all time.....other tops are Sarah Hughes, Sasha Cohen, and actually Naomi Nari Nam had a very nice layback position.

[goldberry99]

Speaking of this, how is a layback to a Biellman allowed in the SP? They are not "laid out" in a Biellman, they are fully upright. I understand the catch-foot layback, but I understand a layback as starting in the first rotation, completing the revolutions fast and centered, and skating out. The SP to me is showing your skills in specific moves. So when a skater only does a couple revolutions in a layback then goes into a Biellman, I groan. Not only is that position overdone, but a layback by itself is very difficult to maintain with speed, centering, and proper position.

[skate expert]

WOW WHAT A GREAT THREAD, IM SO GLAD MANY OF US AGREE ON THE QUALITY OF NIKODINOV, HUGHES, COHEN AND HAMILL. I ACTUALLY HAVE A STAMP FROM AN AFRICAN COUNTRY HONORING HAMILL IN HER OLYMPIC WIN AT IINNSBRUCK, AND IT SHOWS HER IN A LAYBACK SPIN WITH HER HANDS CLASPED TOGETHER ALMOST LIKE A PILLOW ON THE SIDE OF HER HEAD AS SHE SPINS...STUNNING!

NARI NAM HAD A GREAT LAYBACK. I ALSO LOVED TIFFANY CHINS LAYBACK SHE ALWAYS HELD IT FOR A LONG TIME, AND IT SEEMS THOSE GOOD LAYBACKS REALLY BOOSTED THE ARITISTIC IMPRESSION SCORE...

MY FAVORITE IS WHEN DICK BUTTON WOULD CRITICISE THE BAD ONES, HE REAMED DIANA POTH ONCE AND SEVERAL OF THE RUSSIAN AND UKRAINIAN SKATERS AND IT WAS FUNNY AS HELL! BUT, HE IS RIGHT, A GOOD LAYBACK NEEDS TO HAVE THOSE KEY ELEMENTS TO BE MEMORABLE