PCS & TES hand-in-hand?

[icy fresh]

Do you guys think that the PCS scores and the TES scores go hand in hand? Let me explain more. Do you think that a skater will autmoatically be given higher PCS scores because of high TES scores. I got this idea from the thread about the appreciation of Sasha Cohen. Someone made a comment about Kimmie receiving high PCS scored and it made me think if it was just because she skated a clean high-pointing earning TES score. I don't think that just because a skater is clean in their jumps and spins means that they're necesarily expressive. So do high TES scores bring up PCS scores? I certainly don't think it's the other way around and maybe they don't affect eachother at all. Just looking for opinions of more knowledgeable IJS spectators.

[Mathman]

What I think is that the judges are still in the 6.0 frame of mind when it comes time to give out the program component scores.

That is, the judges decide in their mind who they thought was best, second best, etc., then they give out scores appropriately. If you notice, the top skater always gets about 8.25, the second 8.00, the third 7.75, and so on down the line.

One reason why I think they do this is because they don't want to give over the entire show to the technical specialist. Then we wouldn't need judges at all. I think this is the way the judges make sure that the contest "comes out right in the end."

JMO.

MM

[Jaana]

Yes, I think that those scores go hand in hand in CoP system as well as earlier. I sure hope that it would be different one day, LOL.

[Joesitz]

I agree with MM. We are still in the 6.0 system where a clean routine would be considered very important. But falls, in the 6.0 system were a serious mark down. Weiss' quad attempt would earn him some points now, but then it was a complete faux pas.

Also the very top tier skaters got the benefit of any doubt. Michael was a top podium contender but not a very top tier skater.

So failure in Technical seemed to mean lower PCS and Wow moves would mean higher PCS. - Not unlike the 6.0 system.

Maybe they should have forced age retirement of judges so that the new breed of judges coming up will be free of the 6.0 thinking.

Joe

[chuckm]

Not quite. Jeffrey Buttle gets the same PCS whether he has a clean skate (which he often does in the SP) or a very flawed one (which has happened time and again in his FS).

[SeaniBu]

Maybe they should have forced age retirement of judges so that the new breed of judges coming up will be free of the 6.0 thinking.

Joe

And that might not be the only issue that is possibly hindering the scouring sys.

OADN,
I don't think handing over the PCS to a separate panel of Judges would eliminate the ones in place - minding that they don't hand it over to the Tec Js, but rather create a new panel. I see that working. Also the thought that if this would mean the end of said Js, then that might also be an indication a change might be worth considering. JTOL

[MFarone]

I agree with Mathman on this one. It seems the judges are still thinking 6.0 and ranking the skaters by using the PCS. I was amazed at Plushy's PCS at the Olympics when really I didn't see much in the way of interpretation or transitions and he still got high scores.

I thought I read somewhere that the ISU was using two judging panels at Nebelhorn - one for TES and one for PCS - or am I dreaming

Maureen

[Ladskater]

I agree with MM. We are still in the 6.0 system where a clean routine would be considered very important. But falls, in the 6.0 system were a serious mark down. Weiss' quad attempt would earn him some points now, but then it was a complete faux pas.

Also the very top tier skaters got the benefit of any doubt. Michael was a top podium contender but not a very top tier skater.

So failure in Technical seemed to mean lower PCS and Wow moves would mean higher PCS. - Not unlike the 6.0 system.

Maybe they should have forced age retirement of judges so that the new breed of judges coming up will be free of the 6.0 thinking.

Joe

Joe:

Under the 6.0 system a fall was not a complete faux pas. If a skater made an attempt to land a difficult jump - say the quad - they were still given marks for the effort. If they planned to do a jump and then left it out completely or opened up in the jump and didn't rotate at all - now that was and still is a complete faux pas - even under the new marking system.

[Joesitz]

Joe:

Under the 6.0 system a fall was not a complete faux pas. If a skater made an attempt to land a difficult jump - say the quad - they were still given marks for the effort. If they planned to do a jump and then left it out completely or opened up in the jump and didn't rotate at all - now that was and still is a complete faux pas - even under the new marking system.

I don't think we knew for sure how the 6.0 judges were considering falls, incomplete jumps, skids into spins, etc. I think we just assumed certain things in the final scores.

With CoP there is a run out of individual scores for elements in the TES. So it is not too difficult to understand the mentality of the judges for faux pas.

Joe