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Thread: Campbell's format announced

  1. #61
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by temperboy28 View Post
    Am I the only one who finds Scott Smith and Lambiel have a similar skating style? I dont see why if he lands the same jumps they would not be scored similar since they have a similar style.
    Well, I think there are two points to be made. First, they (Lambiel and Smith) don't have the same jump content in their programs. Comparing Scott's all-time best event, the 2005 Onreij Nepela (thanks, Sylvia ) to, for instance, Stephane's 2006 Worlds skate, the total base value for Scott's eight jumping passes is 56.4 and Stephane's (correcting for the disputed triple Axel) is 62.2.

    Then there are the other elements. For the two step sequences Scott has a level 2 and a level 1, while Stephane has two level 3's.

    They are about equal in the levels of their spins, but Lambiel -- perhaps the best spinner in the world -- picks up extra points in GOE.

    Finally, as Chuckm keeps pointing out, the tech score is only half the battle. Figure skating is one of the few sports where it's not only what you do, it's how good you look doing it. Comparing the program component scores (skating skills, transitions, performance/execution, choreography, and interpretation) we have

    Smith: 6.80, 6.20, 6.35, 6.45, 6.35
    Labiel: 7.79, 7.68, 7.82, 7.79, 7.86

    That's a whopping difference of about a point and a half across the board (and these differences are multiplied by 2 in the final scores for the LP), reflecting the judges opinions about the skaters' "style".

    Like Joe says, it is starting to seem like everyone is picking on Scott on this thread. But that's not it at all. Lambiel is the two-time and defending world champion. He is very good!

    BTW, it is an interesting point that in the Olympic LP, Lambiel (2 quads) and Lysacek (0 quads) came out about even. But this can be spun either way. Should Lysacek work on his quads, or should Lambiel work on the rest of his game?

    MM
    Last edited by Mathman; 08-22-2006 at 12:30 PM.

  2. #62
    Rooting for the divas with Kwanford Spun Silver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    I don't recall Abbott ever landing a quad in competition? He is practicing quads, though. He's one of my favorite up-and-comers to watch ever since I saw him win the 2005 U.S. junior title in Portland. Abbott has a nice blend of technical and "artistic" abilities, and I'm really hoping this will be a good comeback season for him.
    One of your mentions is probably where I heard of him! I'm glad he is as good as he looks. Re the quad, this is from his website. ??
    Broadmoor Open [2005] was a good experience. I won the short program. I had absolutely no expectations going into Broadmoor, so winning the short was very exciting for me. I also won the Jump event later that day. I landed 2 triple axels, 2 triple flip triple toes, and a quad sal - the first I've ever attempted in competition!

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    BTW, it is an interesting point that in the Olympic LP, Lambiel (2 quads) and Lysacek (0 quads) came out about even. But this can be spun either way. Should Lysacek work on his quads, or should Lambiel work on the rest of his game?

    Lambiel could have scored about 15 points higher without all his mistakes in the Oly free skate probably. He lost 10.5 points on the 3 jump errors alone. In the short his triple lutz had a +1.14 GOE, and his clean quad early in the long had a +1.00 I believe. He also would have gained more PCS scores without the errors. He probably could have scored around a 167 in the free skate. Even with the mistakes which badly marred the performance his PCS were higher then Evan's, as they always are, and rightfully so.

    I know Plushenko had a 167, but he himself could have scored higher. Had he not doubled his last jump, and not front loaded his program losing bonus marks for putting some jumps laters he could have been close to a 175.

  4. #64
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slutskayafan21 View Post
    Lambiel could have scored about 15 points higher without all his mistakes in the Oly free skate probably.
    That's my point. Stephane needs to work on those mistakes if he wants to keep his lead over Lysacek, Weir, Joubert, etc.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    That's my point. Stephane needs to work on those mistakes if he wants to keep his lead over Lysacek, Weir, Joubert, etc.
    Well he has problems with jump consistency but so do Weir and Joubert the last year anyway. Weir and Joubert used to alot of clean programs but not anymore, Joubert did at the Worlds but until Worlds had not even done close to a clean long since Europeans last year.

    Weir so poorly puts together the TES aspects of his program last year he might as well have fallen 3 times before he starts the program, hopefully for his sake his coach will drill into him this year he has to stick to the protocal of the routine. He actually did stick to the planned COP-programs often in 04-05 and did not do it last year, which does not make sense.

    Lysacek is the only one of them with superior jump consistency, but the effort of mastering the quad and mantaining consistency with all the harder triples, while gaining consistency with the newfound quad is a big challenge.

  6. #66
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    Basic question: are Lambiel's jump problems related to his unstable knee? That knee is a continuing problem, despite two surgeries. Those who saw him at COI said he struggled even with spins. Not a good sign for the coming season.
    Last edited by chuckm; 08-22-2006 at 02:12 PM.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    One of your mentions is probably where I heard of him [Jeremy Abbott]! I'm glad he is as good as he looks. Re the quad, this is from his website. ??
    OK, that's what I thought you were probably referring to! "Jumps" events at club competitions don't really count in my book as a "real comp." because the jumps are performed in isolation. To my knowledge, Abbott has yet to attempt a quad jump in a competition program, but he does have a solo triple toe as the opening jump of his new senior free skate (logical place for a possible quad attempt later in the season?). BTW, Abbott was just assigned to Finlandia Trophy (Senior B comp.) on the U.S. international assignments page today (updated 8/22). Sorry for the "thread drift"!

  8. #68
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    chuckm,

    I read some reports that said Stephane struggled on spins, and others that he was fantastic in the spins. But it was a long tour, and it seemed like everyone was taking turns having their bad night. Even Evgeni had one report talking about him doing doubles--and others, of course, mentioning triple axels.

  9. #69
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    Re: Abbott -

    Thanks for the clarification, Sylvia! I guess it was more of a semi-comp quad, but still obviously good for his confidence.

    We need a "fingers-crossed" or "praying hands" smilie!

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    It may be that as the 2006 US Champion, Sasha is contractually obligated to do Campbell's and the winter Marshall's (unless she is ill or injured, of course). Since she has not ruled out competing in the future, she probably wants to maintain a cordial relationship with the USFS.
    Hmm...you could be right. I never thought of that. Of course, it's all about bringing in the audience and the viewers, which is important for the future of skating on TV.

    I wonder if this (the format change) is a turning point and could mark the return of pro competitions.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    I rememebr a time when RD used to stick up for Sasha all them time though...then someone called him on it and he started bashing her...in an attempt to play devils advocate???

    Ant
    There were a lot more posters out there who continually laid into Cohen but no one said a word about it.

    People used to call me a Sasha fan (just because I wasn't a Kwanfan, BTW) all the time. In fact you still hear many old-time posters joking about it now. (Want evidence? read the "russian name generator" thread) I do remember Cohen used to have a lot of detractors on this forum, so she didn't need one more. Now some folks consider some of the criticism I direct at her "bashing". Trust me, many posters have said much worse things about Cohen, often unchallenged. Now I can't even speak my mind about her without being labelled a "basher". My, how things change.
    Last edited by R.D.; 08-22-2006 at 02:58 PM.

  12. #72
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    RD, it's not your criticizing Sasha that's the issue - it's the obsessiveness with which you go about it. I find it disturbing but that's JMO.

    As to your history as a Sasha-defender (per Antman): Wasn't here, wouldn't have guessed!

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by temperboy28 View Post
    I dont see why if he lands the same jumps they would not be scored similar since they have a similar style. I admit to being more new to figure skating though, and I am still learning. I just find they look like they skate in a similar way.
    What do you mean by "similar style" or "in a similar way"?

    In general, the scores will be based more on *how well* a given skater performs a his or her style of skating than what that style happens to be.

    http://www.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/pa...v-list,00.html

    See JS 07 and JS 08A for criteria used for assigning program component scores.

    The guidelines for the grades of execution aren't as easily available in their own document. I can find you a link if you're interested though.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post

    As to your history as a Sasha-defender (per Antman): Wasn't here, wouldn't have guessed!
    It's blown out of proportion by the posters. The only thing I might have done to so-called "defend" her would be against some of the nastier posters (all of which are either gone or don't post any more) who never cut her a break. But I do that for any skater.

  15. #75
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    That's my point. Stephane needs to work on those mistakes if he wants to keep his lead over Lysacek, Weir, Joubert, etc.
    And Lysacek, Weir and Joubert are so perfect. hmmm. Yet Lambiel has two world championships under his belt with his present game.

    Hang in there though, if one is wishing for the downfall of Lambiel, the knees just might do it for the wishers.

    Joe

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