Campbell's format announced

[Mathman]

And Lysacek, Weir and Joubert are so perfect. hmmm. Yet Lambiel has two world championships under his belt with his present game.

That's the point of the discussion, Joe. Even with the occasional miscue, Lambiel is still beating all of his rivals. If he skated cleanly every time, he would be 15 points ahead of everyone else out of the block.

Just observation. It has nothing to do with wishes.

[R.D.]

back on topic, I don't think this is anything to get real excited about. How about some real competitions...like the GP series, etc.?

[psycho]

That's the point of the discussion, Joe. Even with the occasional miscue, Lambiel is still beating all of his rivals. If he skated cleanly every time, he would be 15 points ahead of everyone else out of the block.

Just observation. It has nothing to do with wishes.

I disagree that if everyone skated clean Lambiel would win. Not because I don't like Lambiel or think that he's inferior, but simply because NO ONE except Plushy skates clean now-a-days. Joubert has sloppy landings and so does Lambiel. Lysacek seems incapable of skating a clean short. Weir can't seem to put enough elements in his FS, Jeff Buttle averages at least 2 falls per program. Eman...is Eman. The point is it is impossible to predict who will lead and how when no one managed to skate clean in a long, long time.

[Mathman]

back on topic, I don't think this is anything to get real excited about. How about some real competitions...like the GP series, etc.?

OK, I'm going to hold you to that. When the Grand Prix series begins, you will start posting about how excited you are about it, right?

[R.D.]

ah...you think you got me, don't cha...but I never said those "real competitions" were exciting to begin with... But compared to something like Campbell's, the GP series is actually something we - er- you guys can "predict" and "analyze".

[antmanb]

1. Those with consistent quads: Joubert, Lambiel, Sandhu, and Klimkin are inconsistent with their 3A's, and don't perform 4/3 combo, 4 solo, 3A/3 combo, 3A solo. The different between a well done quad combo and a messy 3A (without fall):
.

I'm kind of confused as to when Joubert suddenly got a consistent quad - he didn't land the jump in competition for over a year (more like a year and a half) and then he landed one good one at worlds and a couple of shakey/flawed ones and he now has a consistent quad? I think Lambiel is probably the only other skater besides Pluschenko with a properly consistent quad and the rest in your list can land them (and land them very beaituflly) but they are hit and miss in competition.

Ant

[Joesitz]

If we want to get Lambiel, we could talk about his 3A. Other than that, he seems just fine with consistency.

On topic: Pity, we wont see either Joubert of Lambiel at Campbells but do you think the entrants will go for the Quad at Campbells?

Joe

[Zazanuka]

If he skated cleanly every time, he would be 15 points ahead of everyone else out of the block.

Why? Weir's SS, spins and jumps are better than Lambiel's.

[MKFSfan]

I disagree that if everyone skated clean Lambiel would win. Not because I don't like Lambiel or think that he's inferior, but simply because NO ONE except Plushy skates clean now-a-days. Joubert has sloppy landings and so does Lambiel. Lysacek seems incapable of skating a clean short. Weir can't seem to put enough elements in his FS, Jeff Buttle averages at least 2 falls per program. Eman...is Eman. The point is it is impossible to predict who will lead and how when no one managed to skate clean in a long, long time.

Slightly O/T, but could someone please refresh me: at 2006 Worlds, Jobert skated arguably the best LP of his life, right? What did he land then? Did he get dinged on spins and that's where Lambiel with a 3axle and 2 quads, but a couple shaky jumps skated away with the title? IIRC, the two were separated by less than 1 point.

[slutskayafan21]

Why? Weir's SS, spins and jumps are better than Lambiel's.

Weir's spins better then Lambiel's? That is so nuts it is hilarious. As for jumps because Lambiel has a solid quad, and tries 3 total with 1 in the short and 2 in the long, and Weir does not even come close to that at this point, that automaticaly makes him the better jumper for now, unless Weir was much more consistent with his triples which he was not last year.

[slutskayafan21]

Slightly O/T, but could someone please refresh me: at 2006 Worlds, Jobert skated arguably the best LP of his life, right? What did he land then? Did he get dinged on spins and that's where Lambiel with a 3axle and 2 quads, but a couple shaky jumps skated away with the title? IIRC, the two were separated by less than 1 point.

Lambiel was digned 4.2 points when his triple axel was downgraded to a double by the cheating technical specialist. He also lost 2 points for a two footed triple loop. He would have beaten Joubert in the long by over 6 points without those two errors(or so called errors in the case of the downgraded triple axel).

[MKFSfan]

Ohhh...and here I thought that 3axle was clean! He beat Joubert overall by like 3 points, right? Probably from going all out in the QR. I love Lambiel and I think Joubert did amazing at Worlds 2006. Hopefully he will build on that, and we'll see the newest men's rivalry between those two, with Evan and Johnny fighting for a spot on the podium as well!

What is the Chinese man's name, something Li? He always catches my eye, huge jumps. Hopefully he will have a breakout season!

[slutskayafan21]

Ohhh...and here I thought that 3axle was clean! He beat Joubert overall by like 3 points, right? Probably from going all out in the QR. I love Lambiel and I think Joubert did amazing at Worlds 2006. Hopefully he will build on that, and we'll see the newest men's rivalry between those two, with Evan and Johnny fighting for a spot on the podium as well!

What is the Chinese man's name, something Li? He always catches my eye, huge jumps. Hopefully he will have a breakout season!

His triple axel was clean, it simply was counted as if it was not, as if he had doubled or underrotated it badly enough for it to be called a double instead. The technical specialist sometimes has his own agenda.

Yes Lambiel's margin of victory came from the qualifying round.

[chuckm]

I seem to recall that Lambiel built himself a nice 8-point cushion in the 2005 Worlds QR as well. Too bad for Stephane that there will be no QRs at Worlds any more.

[Mathman]

Slightly O/T, but could someone please refresh me: at 2006 Worlds, Jobert skated arguably the best LP of his life, right? What did he land then? Did he get dinged on spins and that's where Lambiel with a 3axle and 2 quads, but a couple shaky jumps skated away with the title? IIRC, the two were separated by less than 1 point.

Joubert landed 4T+3T, 3F+2T, 3A, 4T, 3Lo, 3F, 3Lz, and 3S.

The main difference between Joubert's and Lambiel's jump layouts was that Lambiel did 3F+3T and 2A instead of Joubert's 3F+2T and 3F. The total base values for the eight jumping passes (including second half bonuses, and giving Lambiel credit for the 3A) were Lambiel 62.2, Joubert 59.8.

As Hockeyfan mentioned a while back, Joubert could have closed the gap just by throwing in a couple of 2 loops at the end of one of his solo jumps.

BTW, Lysacek did almost the identical jumps, except he did a second 3A (in combination) instead of a second 4T. Base value for Lysacek's jumps was 60.4

It is pretty easy to look at the CoP point values and see what you have to do to maximize your tech score. So it is not surprising to see the same jump layout for all the top men.

What hurt Lysacek were his program component scores. They were substantially below Lambiel and Joubert, and also below Sandhu and Buttle.