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Thread: What became of the triple-triple?

  1. #16
    Rooting for the Kerrs!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
    She SAID this?
    I doubt it. Sounds like an assumption of what she meant.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by temperboy28 View Post
    Yeah but if Irina had skated great performance even without the 3/3 she probably would have won. Shizuka still took a risk probably by not doing a triple-triple combination.
    I'm ok with your opinion, but I think 'great' needs defining.

    Joe

  3. #18
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    I get the funny feeling that with this newer generation, the 3-3 will re-surface...

  4. #19
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    Not sure about the other skaters, but Mao Asada has a beautiful 3Lu-3Lo in her SP of last season. In the long though, all her combinations are in the end, and the combinations aren't toe-loops, they're loops. If she can up her TES points like that and still maintain good health, then more power to her I say.

  5. #20
    I don't think the CoP so much discourages 3/3 as it does encourage "playing the system." In the past it a lot of skaters used the 3/3 as a way to boost thier scores if they felt they were behind other skaters either technically or artistically. It was really the only concrete way to get results. Now they can play the system to get points. A change of position here or tacking on a double loop there all add up without the risk of a 3/3.

    While there has been a decline in 3/3s practically everyone is doing a 3 jump combo which prior to the CoP was almost never done Its less risky and gives similar results.

    As far as the younger crop goes I think we'll see more 3/3's from them simply because they were perfecting them before CoP in order to compete with the veternans once they reached senior ranks.

    The way I see it, under 6.0 the 3/3 in most cases was used as a technical booster, while under CoP its just another element you put in the program if its something you can do well. Its funny because Jumps used to be put in only if you could do them well, while with things like sprials and spins the skaters just did what they did well. Now its completely reversed and we are basically just seeing the jumps skaters do best, but they will attempt all sorts of sprials and spins regardless of how well they do them.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    I recall a Slutskaya interview just before Torino where she said she wasn't going to do a 3/3 in her FS. She hoped the judges would continue to prop up her PCS scores so that sh wouldn't need to do the 3/3. Arakawa may have either read the interview or heard about it from Tarasova.

    Sasha was the leader after the SP and had been Irina's main competition (aside from Asada) since Irina's return to competition. Once Sasha blew her FS, Shizuka correctly gambled that Irina wouldn't feel any need to add a 3/3.
    Actually Shizuka's coach , Morosov, knew Irina wasn't going to do a 3-3 combo which is why he advised her not to do one. A clean program from Arakawa, and with Arakawa having a huge advantage in the presentation department (both spins and spirals), would put huge pressure from Irina to hit. Honestly, I don't really get Irina. Her advantage is those jumps and she knocked out those 3-3s so easily at Worlds 2005. I don't understand who is advising her to play it safe and do 3-2s. She doesn't have the presentation to beat Shiz (or Sasha for that matter).

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by temperboy28 View Post
    Yeah but if Irina had skated great performance even without the 3/3 she probably would have won. Shizuka still took a risk probably by not doing a triple-triple combination.
    There would have been a huge stink if that crappy program of Irina's was placed ahead of Shiz's with the same technical content. Shiz had really difficult spirals and better spins in addition to buttery smooth jumps. Plus she was skating to Puccini. I think the crowd would have lynched the judges had they gone with Irina.

  8. #23
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    Remember, Irina has a very serious chronic illness. She can push herself just so far, and then there are problems. I think that by the time Torino came around this year, Irina was simply not capable of doing the 3/3s that she once had been able to do so easily. Just the stress of the Olympic season had already started to wear her down before she even got to Torino.

    Also, Irina does not feel confident of her 3/3s when she is under pressure. She was able to rip off the 3/3s in the 2004-2005 GPs where both Sasha and Michelle were absent, Shizuka was off her game, and Irina had no real competition. She was able to do a 3/3 at CoR this season because her toughest opponent was Miki Ando. But there was no 3/3 at CoC where she faced Mao Asada for the first time, and no 3/3 at the GPF. It is not surprising at all that she had planned no 3/3 for Torino.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Why don't the ladies do triple-triples any more? Is there something about the CoP than subtly discourages them?

    In the Olympic free skate, unless I missed something glancing at the protocols, only one lady tried a triple-triple. That was Elene Gedevanishvili. She got a negative GOE on the element, plus got 0 credit for her last jump for a Zayak violation (she did 2A+3T, 3Lz+3T and solo 3T), and finished 13th.

    Meanwhile...Arakawa, no 3/3; Cohen, no 3/3; Slutskaya, no 3/3; Suguri, no 3/3; Rochette, no 3/3; Meissner, no 3/3; Hughes, no 3/3;...

    Are we going backwards technically?

    At Worlds, as far as I can see only one skater did a triple-triple. Meissner did two, and the judges went so crazy for her that they gave her PCSs seven points higher than her previous personal best.

    What can we expect from the next wave? I don't think Mao Asada has a 3/3. Yu-Na Kim did 3F/3T at junior worlds. Who else is going to come out looking to "up the ante" (as they say)?
    You never know. Had Kwan knew after the fact, she wouldn't jump herself out of the final game.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by riverflows View Post
    Not sure about the other skaters, but Mao Asada has a beautiful 3Lu-3Lo in her SP of last season. In the long though, all her combinations are in the end, and the combinations aren't toe-loops, they're loops. If she can up her TES points like that and still maintain good health, then more power to her I say.
    But Mao has yet pass her grown spurt yet. Ppl saw them said her sister has lost all jumps because of she is under going her growing spurt.

  11. #26
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anything_for_skating View Post
    Wow, that's fantastic. Thanks for posting it. Check it out, everyone!

    The only problem is, if she puts a 3/3/3 in her program, that doesn't really help her as much as it should because of Zayak restrictions. You have to scale back some of your other jumping passes (like maybe do two double Axels) later in the program.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Wow, that's fantastic. Thanks for posting it. Check it out, everyone!

    The only problem is, if she puts a 3/3/3 in her program, that doesn't really help her as much as it should because of Zayak restrictions. You have to scale back some of your other jumping passes (like maybe do two double Axels) later in the program.

    The last thing Carolina Kostner needs is to do two 2As. It's her worst jump!

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mzheng View Post
    You never know. Had Kwan knew after the fact, she wouldn't jump herself out of the final game.
    Ah hindsight-coulda, woulda, shoulda!!!

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    The last thing Carolina Kostner needs is to do two 2As. It's her worst jump!
    Yes, well, we all must do things we don't want to at times.

    A 3-3-3 could be a powerful tool for skaters. It allows them to do an extra double axle and that 3.3 points is a HUGE boost.

    However, I think double axles should fall under the Zayak rule. Still, you could work the system by putting one of the Axels in combo. Let's pretend Shizuka really did that 3-3-3 and her program became thus:

    3Lutz/2Loop
    3Sal/3Toe/3Loop
    3Flip
    2Axel
    3Lutz
    3Loop
    2Axel/2Toe

    Huge amount of points there. Although for her particular program I would almost prefer just a regular 3-3 and then the usual 3Sal/2Toe/2Loop at the end because that jump combination is so much more impressive coming out of her gorgeous Ina Bauer and creates an amazing climax for the performance.
    Last edited by Zuranthium; 08-22-2006 at 10:52 PM.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mzheng View Post
    But Mao has yet pass her grown spurt yet. Ppl saw them said her sister has lost all jumps because of she is under going her growing spurt.
    Actually, Mao (and Yu-na as well) has grown 4-5 inches last year, and it didn't seem to effect her jumps at all. Her 3Axel at the Japan Open was better than ever, and she's been looping all her way to the Grand Prix Final. (I believe her shortcoming at the Jr. Worlds was due to pressure of defending the title.) And her sister Mai was never known to be a "jumping bean" like Mao anyway.

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