New Survivor Show

Here's a new twist......I have mixed feelings about it.

Survivor New Show

Dee

Oh, this is such a bad idea. I suppose the plan is, first one or two of the tribes will be driven to extinction, then after the merge we can have a society with two or three distinct subtribes coexisting uneasily in a "separate but equal" society.

Well, it is "reality TV."

How's this for a racial stereotype? "Nail salon manager Anh-Tuan Bui."

My favorite so far: Performer-Roller Girl Jessica Smith.

(I've always had a soft spot in my heart for roller derby mamas.)

As much as I think it is a bad idea, I will probably watch it. I think this will do nothing but cause people to draw more conclusions based on race more than before or help perpetuate stereotype base on race. Silly. Those comments should have just been ignored from the complaining populous and returned nothing more than the "we take only those who will apply."

By Jeff saying that it isn't a "publicity stunt" that makes it more evident that it is. Obviously, by listening to the "complainer" he is wanting to get them as happy viewers. Duh Jeff, how stupid do you think we are? Well...

Well I think this will be a very interesting show. If people want to draw superficial conclusions, let them be stupid.

In terms of race relations, "letting them be stupid" is what we have tried so far.

For the people who are already too superficial or ignorant, a show like SURVIVOR is going to do nothing to improve their viewpoint. But for those of us who have a better understand of these things, I think what the show is doing could be quite fascinating. I used to watch Survivor a lot because I loved how it examined the politics and mini-society of the tribes. I haven't been watching for the past couple years, but I may just make it a point to record this season.

Mathman said:

How's this for a racial stereotype? "Nail salon manager Anh-Tuan Bui."

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How is that racial stereotyping on behalf of Survivor? Not asked to be argumentative... I'm genuinely curious to see how you see it that way.

From my perspective, it's what that person really does, not what Survivor told them to do or be. In quickly reading the list, if anything, all tribes have a lot of people on them with very highly regarded jobs... a good mix, and no one tribe has been cast stereotypically, if you look at them on the whole.

Racial and ethnic groups exist naturally and from my experiences, they are proud of their uniqueness. Some of these things may have developed into a 'stereotype', but not all stereotypes are negative. If I say that Italians make good pasta or that Black people can sing - it's not to say that all people fit that all the time, but in general the stereotypes have been formed based on a general trend that is quite true. Now, if I'm going to discriminate against an individual based on a stereotype - that's where things go horribly wrong... so yes, stereotypes can and have been negative - when people can't see past them.

Getting back to Survivor - I have nothing against them grouping the tribes by race, as long as it's simply for the sake of grouping. Last season they grouped according to other criteria - male/female, old/young.... to me, this is no different. It would be a different story if they divided it by race and then said, OK the white tribe has automatic immunity for the first 3 weeks or some other such advantage/disavantage situation was developed.

It's definitely bold, on the part of Survivor, to do this - not because the act in and of itself is anything special, but because of how the audience has and will react to it.

Maybe my reaction is influenced by being Canadian... I'm not sure. I know they always teach us the "Mosiac" and "Melting Pot" theories of Canada vs US and how we deal with multiculturalism... but I'm not convinced that's necessarily at play here.... just something else to ponder.

Anyways, I'm rambling and going on so I'll stop... no one has to agree with me, so please don't take issue or argue with me.... but please do present your own feelings and thoughts on this, because it's intriguing.

Erica Lee said:

Last season they grouped according to other criteria - male/female, old/young.... to me, this is no different.

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Interesting comment?

Erica Lee said:

How is that racial stereotyping on behalf of Survivor? Not asked to be argumentative... I'm genuinely curious to see how you see it that way.

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The stereotype is, every Korean or Vietnamese immigrant comes to America and immediately opens up a nail salon.

Just like all Albanians own coney island restaurants.

As you say, all stereotypes have their representatives (as well as their exceptions).

Andrew Young (1960s civil rights activist and associate of Martin King) recently had to resign from the Walmart community relations board for saying, it's a good thing for Walmart to run the "mom and pop" stores out of business because:

"...those are the people who have been overcharging us, selling us stale bread and bad meat and wilted vegetables. And they sold out and moved to Florida. I think they've ripped off our communities enough. First it was Jews, then it was Koreans and now it's Arabs."

The stereotype is, every Korean or Vietnamese immigrant comes to America and immediately opens up a nail salon.

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Never heard of that one before...

Red Dog said:

Never heard of that one before...

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Are you kidding - you must be. This is out of my comfort zone, but in light of the Asians I have as friends and had as girlfriends, that is on the money for a stereo type as they would agree. There is NO nail salons around here that are not owned or run by Asians, particularly Vietnamese and Laotians. The salon that I just did a install of the sound system was Vietnamese. As far a Korean, the stereo type there is usually Liquor stores, but that is fading as a norm. Still the only ones I go to though, one has a daughter (married in her 20s) that named their boy the same name as me (not "after" but they liked my name), and she looks like a Korean Molly Ringwald . Main reason though it is the only places I can get Jinro Soju.

No one is a bigger Survivor lunatic than me... I watch it, analyze it, support its products, and schedule my life around Thursdays @ 8... but this season's premise is twisted... Its a tv show... be a tv show. I get to deal with racism & sexism everyday... I resent Survivor, my favorite mental break, foisting this nonsense on me... and for those who think this is perfectly alright ~ I say: you are lucky to live in your world, because in mine, its not entertaining at all...

Zuranthium said:

Well I think this will be a very interesting show. If people want to draw superficial conclusions, let them be stupid.

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Are you seriously serious? People who have a problem with the show are the one's who are "drawing superficial conclusions." Wow. Where do you live & how can be apart of your Coke commercial?

For those of you that take serious issue with this whole premise (and really, none of us have seen the show or how it was handles yet - so all we are going on is the idea of dividing people based on race) - I've yet to really read an in depth expression of why and what exactly about it is offensive. I know you have your reasons, and it's not *necessary* that you express them - but I'd honestly love to open up the discussion and hear about it! I don't want to make any assumptions.

Are opinions being formed based on knowledge of history and how situations like this can go wrong? Personal experiences? Is it so engrained in culture that pointing out race and race differences is wrong?

I know that as someone who's worked with kids we often play games, for fun, on a 'boys vs girls' basis or 'staff vs kids' ... and no one bats an eyelash. I would never yell out, "ok, now let's play blacks vs whites vs asians vs hispanics" so I do see that there is something odd about the whole premise... but let's look further. Why does it become such a big deal the it is inherently wrong? Are we being so protective of something that we're really making things worse? Are we striving so hard for equality that we can't see the forest through the trees?

I don't have answers... just questions... and this whole situation is bringing up much larger ideological questions than a simple reality TV competition usually produces.

Here's another article.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/eo/20060823/en_tv_eo/19833

I think it'll work if it's only for the 1st week or 2. Last season, they divided the tribes by age and sex, which violates EEOC the same way as race. However, there were only 4 teams for 2 weeks(? I know it wasn't longer than that).

Also, as long as the contestants themselves aren't stereotypes, it won't mean anything significant. As an person of Asian descent, I would only be offended if all of the Asian's spoke poor English, were all studious and were all slight of build and non-physical and geeky. If they are all Long Duck Dong's (the exchange student from 16 Candles) or William Hung's or Jackie Chan's, I would definitley boycott this season and start writing letters. Just like I would hope that not all the white's are rednecks and that not all the black's are gang members. As long as the cast represents a true diversity within each tribe, it shouldn't be an issue.

Based upon the cast bios and photos on CBS's website, it looks like a diverse group with regards to careers and education. If you read the nail salon manager's biography, he has a diverse background. Many immigrants come here and work hard at 'low level' jobs to provide a better future for their families.

My grandfather was a teacher in China; when he emigrated here with the family, he became a farmer and then eventually a restaurant owner. That was in the late 40's - early 50's. My maternal grandparents settled in Chinatown - my grandfather arrived 1st and ran a shop and my grandmother worked in a sewing factory. My great uncle (who was 2 years older than my father) was a doctor in China; he came here and worked as a cook in a Chinese restaurant (sometime in the late 70's) until both his children graduated from college and married and gave him grandchildren. There's certainly no shame in operating a nail salon - I'd rather that than gang member.

Erica Lee , I will try to frame a response to your thoughtful post. (OT -- Are you the web master of Meno-Sand.net? )

While I am thinking about what I want to say, check out Kwanford Wife's comment above, "...and for those who think this is perfectly alright ~ I say: you are lucky to live in your world, because in mine, its not entertaining at all."

Indeed, it is not.

I was most interested of all in this part of your post:

Erica Lee said:

I know that as someone who's worked with kids we often play games, for fun, on a 'boys vs girls' basis or 'staff vs kids' ... and no one bats an eyelash. I would never yell out, "ok, now let's play blacks vs whites vs asians vs hispanics"

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No, I wouldn't either. What is it that our instincts are warning us so loudly about?

Well until last year the show format was the same, I liked last years expect they didn't keep the tribs seperated long enough.
Doing something different will keep the show a little fresh and we won't know what to expect next.
I'll watch, I've been watching all the reruns on the Outdoor Network

To Heyang , eveyone had his own problems, but I don't think you can compare the burden of a stereotypical expectation that "you are good at math and own a nail salon" to "your are awful at math and a criminal."

You know, I'll reserve judgement until the show actually begins. I don't really know what to think of this, except that I think it will be a riot (both figuratively and literally )

Mathman said:

To Heyang , eveyone had his own problems, but I don't think you can compare the burden of a stereotypical expectation that "you are good at math and own a nail salon" to "your are awful at math and a criminal."

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True, but if you look at the bios of the actual contestants, I don't consider any of them to be stereotypes of their racial heritage.

If the contestants were caricatures of their ethnic stereotypes, then this concept would be totally out of line.