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Thread: Mao to train with Rafael Arutunian

  1. #1
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    News Mao to train with Rafael Arutunian

    http://asia.news.yahoo.com/060825/kyodo/d8jnghu81.html

    Saw this story floating around and thought I'd share...

    Any thoughts on how a Asada / Arutunian L.A. / Lake Arrowhead partnership will translate in the up-coming season?

    Will she and sister Mai become the newest version of the ice princess legacy that is Michelle & Karen?

    WIll being so far away from home negatively affect the young star's potential?

    Will Mao become yet another tragic, causionary tale associated with Aruturian's rep of focusing so much on jumps that his skaters wear out their bodies?

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    That could very well be Mao's demise. Hate to say it but I don't like his style of teaching.
    I do hope that a parent will be with them in Arrowhead. A lot of skaters come and go and don't give a lot of reason for their leaving.

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    Usually coming to the US leads to good things for international skaters...I think, anyway.

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    This was in a previous story. I thought it was a good idea. Rafael did wonders with Sasha Abt and it showed in Euros that year. When Abt went to New Jersey, he was at his worst.

    He got MK into solid jump landings, but alas it was during the period where the hip was going and we did see the loop go downhill. Blame the hip; not the coach.

    Calgirl - Until I will know the reasons, I will look at this change as a plus for Mao.
    There has been a lot of coming and going with many skaters and coaches since Nicole Bobek and probably earlier.

    Joe

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    Japanese ladies have had mixed results when it comes to coaching with Russian coaches in America. It worked great for Arakawa, yet not so great for Suguri. Interesting that Tarasova largely credited Shizuka's Japanese values for the success of the partnership, whereas Vasiliev blamed the same thing for his failure to do anything for Fumie.

    I am not sure how the partnership will work out. Arutunian is primarily a technical coach, whereas the Asada sisters need a mature style. Then again, it seems that when Japanese ladies to the US to train, they don't fully leave their Japanese coaches. I do hope this works!

    P.S. As to allegations about Arutunian - I would like to hear something substantial before passing any judgement. I suspect he does push his students a lot; this may not be appropriate for working with younger less developped students, yet may work well for elite skaters such as the Asada sisters.
    Last edited by Ptichka; 08-30-2006 at 05:49 PM.

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    Well, Rafael is known for being a jump coach, right? So maybe it's a coincidence that skaters with jump issues go to him, and when he addresses certain technique issues, they have to relearn and spend more time training a specific jump and in the process get injured. I don't know...I think Michelle's health issues were there before RA and maybe doing more training brought out those injuries. Her loop is an example of my theory-that has always been her problematic jump and RA had her rework the jump, change the entrance and then we hear that jump gives her pain-was it the hip itself or is it the focus on that specific jump with RA that did her in? Who knows.

    I hope this works for Mao, she needs to fix her toe axle and bad flutz.

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    I'd once again take the wait and see approach here. But it can only be a step in the right direction for the Asada sisters.

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    I believe MK's hip problems came before RA. If he did overwork her loop, I think the hip would not have gotten any better if he had not.

    After the splash comes the slump. Mao had her splash and I think now, she may have gone into a slump with the landings of the 3x3 combos or the 3A He can fix that at least at practice. Just an idea because why would she go to the jump expert?

    Can somebody tell me what exactly is a toe axel?

    Joe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Can somebody tell me what exactly is a toe Axel?
    A normal Axel jump is off the front outside edge of the blade. Sometimes people do the jump off their heel or in rare cases off the toepick. I really haven't even seen somebody do a toe Axel...the mechanics of that are just wonky and I know I definitely would not be able to rotate a Double Axle if I tried to go off the toe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ptichka View Post
    Japanese ladies have had mixed results when it comes to coaching with Russian coaches in America. It worked great for Arakawa, yet not so great for Suguri. Interesting that Tarasova largely credited Shizuka's Japanese values for the success of the partnership, whereas Vasiliev blamed the same thing for his failure to do anything for Fumie.
    Both Tarasova and Morosov are emotional coaches, by which I mean they engage emotionally with their skaters. Vasiliev is more distant. I wonder if Suguri would have responded differently had she trained in New Jersey with Zhulin and Platov among the Russian coaches.

    Vasiliev was quoted extensively in Joy Goodwin's book, The Second Mark, in which he said that he was not a special talent, but that the system made him into a great skater. That's why I always found it surprising that he complained the Suguri always wanted to break everything down physiologically and know how things worked. But the stereotype of Japanese skaters is that they are stoic and obedient, and I suppose that means "should be" unquestioning.

    I, personally, would have sent her to Canada. The Japanese men who have trained in Canada, like Honda and Oda, have seemed happy.
    Last edited by hockeyfan228; 08-30-2006 at 07:22 PM.

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    I could be mistaken, but I think people refer to Mao's toe loop as a toe axle because of the actual rotation in the air-2.5 revs, and not because the take-off is off an edge rather than toe.

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    Toe Axel is while trying to do a Toe Loop jump, the skater pre-rotates about half a turn so s/he ends up taking off from front edge as if it's an Axel jump. Under CoP, Toe Axeling gets downgraded and hammered with negative GOE. When Mao Asada tried double toe as a part of combination once last season, that's exactly what happened.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rjulie510 View Post
    Toe Axel is while trying to do a Toe Loop jump, the skater pre-rotates about half a turn so s/he ends up taking off from front edge as if it's an Axel jump. Under CoP, Toe Axeling gets downgraded and hammered with negative GOE. When Mao Asada tried double toe as a part of combination once last season, that's exactly what happened.
    Thanks rjulie - I couldn't imagine where one would toe off from a forward outside edge which is the take off edge for an axel.

    I do see lots of toe loop cheats. Don't blame the Caller on that one.

    Joe

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    MK's problem was diagonized before she went to RA. But RA probably was the last to know the extend of her injury even last season. She kept it under water for about 3 years. Only failed at last push. The relentless practicing jumps for Olympics last season to the point, RA had to yell at her to stop added the toll on it......RA diddn't like MK's loop and lutz, but at the end, MK was not willing to change them.

    The time Mao and Mai spend on and off at Lake Arrowhead, neither Mao nor Mai were practicing jumps like MK last season. However it was said Mao is in pain 'AGAIN'....only Mai was seen at Lake Arrowhead lately, Mao was a no show since she is in pain. Mao had flutz, but now from ppl saw her jump, what she has is a 'loop lutz', that's not RA's work. My guess is Mao is enduring some growing body change, so subconsiousely she changed her own jump habbit to cop with her subtle body change. Had Mao been RA's student from very early on, he would've gradualy but constantly adjusted her jump technique to cop with body growth. RA is not a good CoP coach or at presentation department. Mao certainly need another coach for that. I heard Lori N. is her choreographer for both LP and SP now. Original she had Lori do one and Morosov do other. But she diddn't like the one Morosov did for her. So she went to Lori again.

    Four year is too long to predict anything. With jumps and injuries such. IMO, 2010's lady OGM will be some new emerge to scene next couple of season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Thanks rjulie - I couldn't imagine where one would toe off from a forward outside edge which is the take off edge for an axel.
    Well you pre-rotate when you do a toe axle. But it's just wonky. DON'T DO IT. Lol.

    I've never seen anyone do a toe-axle in real life...whether it be a messed up Axle (which really could only result from a bad entrance that was trying to be saved) OR a messed up toe loop. Mao Asada is the only time I've ever seen this phenomenom.

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