The Kimmie Article | Page 2 | Golden Skate

The Kimmie Article

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
I have to agree with Mafke. Kimmie has the ability to watch the successful skaters, glean from them what makes a great performance, and identify all the areas in her own skating that she needs to work on. In the early season last year we saw her struggle with her spiral, spins and step sequences, and get dinged for underrotating her 3/3s. But what a transformation from October to March! She finished in the top 6 at Torino without the 3/3s, then won Worlds with all the improvements in place.

Kimmie's objectivity about her own skating and her common-sense personality will take her where she wants to go.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
So much of figure skating came naturally to Sasha. Kimmie had to work at it. That is the difference in the work ethic.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Sources are saying Kimmie IS training the 3axle again, landing it pretty consistently by itself and struggling with consistency in her LP. I'd rather see her improve in other aspects of her skating than working hard on the 3axle. She does have good jump technique and if she can rotate those 3/3's, she has an advantage there.

Hmm, I'm not so sure if this is where she needs the most work on. I certainly admire her for her guts and willingness to do the hard stuff, but it can also take away from the "in-betweens" (the presentation and other things that can still put her over others should her jumps be off). I can't help but think that Kimmie will have a less-than-impressive season this time around. At least for the 06/07 season I think she'll have some problems, but maybe she'll bounce back in the 08 season.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
So much of figure skating came naturally to Sasha. Kimmie had to work at it. That is the difference in the work ethic.

Hmm, another possible point. In other words, Kimmie is hard-working and strives to do well while Cohen falls back on her natural abilities to carry her through comps?
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I can't help but think that Kimmie will have a less-than-impressive season this time around. At least for the 06/07 season I think she'll have some problems, but maybe she'll bounce back in the 08 season.
Whew, talk about pure speculation with no supporting facts. You are telling us what is going to happen in 2008?

For me, I'll stick to prognosticating about Christian Anshutz. :p
 

MKFSfan

Medalist
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
Lots can happen to prevent her from continuing at the Calgary level but I definitely got that Kwan/Slute vibe from her. She likes competing for its own sake and will do what it takes to progress and do well over the long term (in other words: her goal isn't to win a big competition or two and retire).

Sure, lots can happen. I think her Calgary win will make her hungrier for more titles. Sometimes they work out, sometimes there's only one Big Win on the resume (Sarah Hughes wanted a National and Worlds title, but after a not so great 2002-03 season, she opted out.)

I don't think she's going to up her jump content (because... why?) and I don't like her toe-axelish toe loops but I think her presentation skills will improve a lot (over time).

What do you mean? Supposedly the girl is back to working on her 3axle-it remains to be seen if she includes it in her LP's (I personally do not think she needs it.) But she has been including a 3lz/3toe in her SP and LP and 3flip/3toe in her LP. Not many top skaters can say they have that. Of current eligibles-Mao, Emily, Yu Na, Sasha, Elena, Fumie to name a few, don't do 2 3/3's let alone those difficult two combos. So, aside from working on a quad or a 3axle combo, what more can she do to up her jump content? I'd rather see her grow/mature in other aspects of her skating-presentation and connecting with the audience BUT under COP, that isn't enough to replace 3axles, 3/3's, level 4 spins and spirals...etc...because we are seeing PCS reflect TES, when a skater delivers a strong, technical program.
 

Mafke

Medalist
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
So, aside from working on a quad or a 3axle combo, what more can she do to up her jump content?

That was my point, there's not a lot of room for her jump content to (realistically) increase so that's not going to be where her improvement will be (if there is improvement). About as much as could reasonably be expected is to have both the 3ax and two 3-3's in the LP. But that's a longshot I'd say. And I'm very skeptical about seeing any 3ax combos or quads from her (I hope not, I _hate_ quads mostly because they're ugly and wish they'd disappear from mens competitions).

Her presentation still has a long way to go (and she's given every indication she's aware of that and will continue working on it) as well as tweaking her spins and spirals for COP. Will she make it? Too early to say but I'd give her at least even odds for major presentation improvement against the much longer odds for markedly upping her jumping content.
 

SeaniBu

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 19, 2006
I think Kimmie needs some romance or just carefree clild like asperations in her life to feel the music in a different way. I think she just uses the music / mood now rather than understanding and becoming in "tune" with the tune. IMO
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
It's all possible (not predicting) that Lori will work on presentation as well as choreography. I have to feel that the win in Calgary has not only given her confidence but also the understanding of reaching the audience. She has also done some shows in COI, and made benefit appearances. She also faced audiences in talk shows, etc. The shyness will disappear this year. Now, imo, the presentation will definitely be shown to have improved. How much? We'll see in the not so different future.

Tara and Oksana were blessed with the little girl look and definitely played that up. It worked. Had they tried Thais or Rach, I doubt they could handle it. A teenage dancer can not perform Giselle regardless of how great the technique is. I see Mao in this group of 'little girl' is so talented. Yeah. Michelle was blessed with an innate sense of maturity. Her repertoire has shown that at any age.

Kimmie can not play the little girl type, anymore than Sarah could have. She's too tall and mature looking. A mature Kimmie may well beat a cutsie Mao if the presentation improves. Will she?

Joe
 

Mafke

Medalist
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
It's all possible (not predicting) that Lori will work on presentation as well as choreography.
...
Tara and Oksana were blessed with the little girl look and definitely played that up. It worked. Had they tried Thais or Rach, I doubt they could handle it.
Joe

There's a theory of foreign language acquisition that maintains that the ideal input is one half-step above what the learner can process. If it's too far above what the learner can deal with they get discouraged and if it's too easy they stop trying. In my personal experience that's true and the best language teachers I've had can 'aim' their production to different levels.
I think that Nichols does something like that choreography especially when a skater is on the uphill grade, just hard enough so that the skater has to work but within what the skater thinks they can do. In other words, I think Nichols's choreography is planned (consciously or not?) to improve the skater's presentation skills. I'm very interested in what she and Meissner come up with this season.

I for one am glad that the litte-girl option is closed to Meissner. I never got either Baiul or Lipinski. I'm remarkably immune to cuteness (it usually makes me growl and/or hiss) and I just kept noticing the sloppy technique of the first (the story goes she couldn't even do a bracket turn!) and the teeny teeny jumps of the second (I enjoyed Lipinski more than Baiul but not by much).
The _only_ cute skater I ever fell for was the very young Ito who I first saw in the early 80s on a televised junior worlds. But at her peak in the late 80's early 90's (when her figure and style weren't sprite like) she embodied the pure joy of skating more than any other competitor I've ever seen (esp 88 olys and 89 and 90 worlds). I think her presentation peaked in 88 and 89, her conscious attempts at presentation after that were a step backwards
 

lisadotdash

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 26, 2004
I think Kimmie needs some romance or just carefree clild like asperations in her life to feel the music in a different way. I think she just uses the music / mood now rather than understanding and becoming in "tune" with the tune. IMO

Dick Button said Kimmie says her Idol is Michelle K. Now, unless Kimmie is just patronizing her or trying to win Michelle's skating-knowledgeable public to march behind her, that might be the kiss of death right there.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Dick Button said Kimmie says her Idol is Michelle K. Now, unless Kimmie is just patronizing her or trying to win Michelle's skating-knowledgeable public to march behind her, that might be the kiss of death right there.
Well, I don't suppose Kimmie will end up winning 9 U.S. titles and 5 world championships, but hey, give the kid a chance. :)
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
That above post is the problem. People are desperately finding someone else to compare to Kwan and it JUST WON'T WORK!!
 

jsteam4501s

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 7, 2006
IF Sasha had skated clean.....IF....IF....IF...... If a frog had wings, he wouldn't have to jump from lilypad to lilypad...........

No - I don't agree that a merely "clean" skate would have won World gold for Sasha. Kimmie just racked up too many points for Sasha to have won with just a "clean" skate.............
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
I think Kimmie needs some romance or just carefree clild like asperations in her life to feel the music in a different way. I think she just uses the music / mood now rather than understanding and becoming in "tune" with the tune. IMO

Very, very few skaters are skating to the music. They are so intent on getting in all their elements that interepretation and expressing the character of the music goes right out the window. This was especially true of Irina this year. All I saw from her was frantic skating at lightning speed. She might as well have been skating to white noise.

Sasha did make some good attempts at interpretation in her Torino FS, but her timing was just a bit off. At Worlds, with all the mistakes, she forgot all about being Juliet, got way behind the music and rushed into her last jump, which is probably why she fell.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Sasha's interpretation of Dark Eyes shows the meaning of the character of the music. Dark Eyes is a winner for her; the judges; and the audience. That is why I believe she will win the Campbells without a 3x3. She would be a fool not to use it. I don't see her using a new routine.

Joe
 

dizzydi7

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 31, 2004
I've heard discussed before the term "special". These are skaters who have something about their skating that can't be taught whether it be elegance, musiciality, etc. It's an element about their skating that is unique to that particular skater, a natural talent so to speak.

This is my opinion about Kimmie. As wonderful a young lady as she seems to be as well as a talented skater. She does not have that "special" quality. This is not to say that she didn't deserve her World title. This is not to say that she will not win more championships.

Comparing Kimmie to Michelle Kwan is ridiculous. Michelle doesn't compare to any other skater before her and it's unlikely there will be another like her in our lifetime. Most of Michelle's success has been her talent but like with ALL skaters luck plays a huge hand. For one thing, being born at the right time is a definite plus.

I do wish Kimmie good fortune in the future. She seems to be working hard and will need to do just that to keep in front of the competition coming from the Japanese and elsewhere. What we should keep in mind is that the US is so fortunate to have a Kimmie Meissner at this time.

Dizzy
 
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