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Thread: The Kimmie Article

  1. #31
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    It's all possible (not predicting) that Lori will work on presentation as well as choreography. I have to feel that the win in Calgary has not only given her confidence but also the understanding of reaching the audience. She has also done some shows in COI, and made benefit appearances. She also faced audiences in talk shows, etc. The shyness will disappear this year. Now, imo, the presentation will definitely be shown to have improved. How much? We'll see in the not so different future.

    Tara and Oksana were blessed with the little girl look and definitely played that up. It worked. Had they tried Thais or Rach, I doubt they could handle it. A teenage dancer can not perform Giselle regardless of how great the technique is. I see Mao in this group of 'little girl' is so talented. Yeah. Michelle was blessed with an innate sense of maturity. Her repertoire has shown that at any age.

    Kimmie can not play the little girl type, anymore than Sarah could have. She's too tall and mature looking. A mature Kimmie may well beat a cutsie Mao if the presentation improves. Will she?

    Joe

  2. #32
    Gadfly and Bon Vivant Mafke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    It's all possible (not predicting) that Lori will work on presentation as well as choreography.
    ...
    Tara and Oksana were blessed with the little girl look and definitely played that up. It worked. Had they tried Thais or Rach, I doubt they could handle it.
    Joe
    There's a theory of foreign language acquisition that maintains that the ideal input is one half-step above what the learner can process. If it's too far above what the learner can deal with they get discouraged and if it's too easy they stop trying. In my personal experience that's true and the best language teachers I've had can 'aim' their production to different levels.
    I think that Nichols does something like that choreography especially when a skater is on the uphill grade, just hard enough so that the skater has to work but within what the skater thinks they can do. In other words, I think Nichols's choreography is planned (consciously or not?) to improve the skater's presentation skills. I'm very interested in what she and Meissner come up with this season.

    I for one am glad that the litte-girl option is closed to Meissner. I never got either Baiul or Lipinski. I'm remarkably immune to cuteness (it usually makes me growl and/or hiss) and I just kept noticing the sloppy technique of the first (the story goes she couldn't even do a bracket turn!) and the teeny teeny jumps of the second (I enjoyed Lipinski more than Baiul but not by much).
    The _only_ cute skater I ever fell for was the very young Ito who I first saw in the early 80s on a televised junior worlds. But at her peak in the late 80's early 90's (when her figure and style weren't sprite like) she embodied the pure joy of skating more than any other competitor I've ever seen (esp 88 olys and 89 and 90 worlds). I think her presentation peaked in 88 and 89, her conscious attempts at presentation after that were a step backwards

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaniBu View Post
    I think Kimmie needs some romance or just carefree clild like asperations in her life to feel the music in a different way. I think she just uses the music / mood now rather than understanding and becoming in "tune" with the tune. IMO
    Dick Button said Kimmie says her Idol is Michelle K. Now, unless Kimmie is just patronizing her or trying to win Michelle's skating-knowledgeable public to march behind her, that might be the kiss of death right there.

  4. #34
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Mafke, thanks for the great posts on this thread.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by lisadotdash View Post
    Dick Button said Kimmie says her Idol is Michelle K. Now, unless Kimmie is just patronizing her or trying to win Michelle's skating-knowledgeable public to march behind her, that might be the kiss of death right there.
    Well, I don't suppose Kimmie will end up winning 9 U.S. titles and 5 world championships, but hey, give the kid a chance.

  6. #36
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    That above post is the problem. People are desperately finding someone else to compare to Kwan and it JUST WON'T WORK!!

  7. #37
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    IF Sasha had skated clean.....IF....IF....IF...... If a frog had wings, he wouldn't have to jump from lilypad to lilypad...........

    No - I don't agree that a merely "clean" skate would have won World gold for Sasha. Kimmie just racked up too many points for Sasha to have won with just a "clean" skate.............

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaniBu View Post
    I think Kimmie needs some romance or just carefree clild like asperations in her life to feel the music in a different way. I think she just uses the music / mood now rather than understanding and becoming in "tune" with the tune. IMO
    Very, very few skaters are skating to the music. They are so intent on getting in all their elements that interepretation and expressing the character of the music goes right out the window. This was especially true of Irina this year. All I saw from her was frantic skating at lightning speed. She might as well have been skating to white noise.

    Sasha did make some good attempts at interpretation in her Torino FS, but her timing was just a bit off. At Worlds, with all the mistakes, she forgot all about being Juliet, got way behind the music and rushed into her last jump, which is probably why she fell.

  9. #39
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Sasha's interpretation of Dark Eyes shows the meaning of the character of the music. Dark Eyes is a winner for her; the judges; and the audience. That is why I believe she will win the Campbells without a 3x3. She would be a fool not to use it. I don't see her using a new routine.

    Joe

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    The Kimmie Article

    I've heard discussed before the term "special". These are skaters who have something about their skating that can't be taught whether it be elegance, musiciality, etc. It's an element about their skating that is unique to that particular skater, a natural talent so to speak.

    This is my opinion about Kimmie. As wonderful a young lady as she seems to be as well as a talented skater. She does not have that "special" quality. This is not to say that she didn't deserve her World title. This is not to say that she will not win more championships.

    Comparing Kimmie to Michelle Kwan is ridiculous. Michelle doesn't compare to any other skater before her and it's unlikely there will be another like her in our lifetime. Most of Michelle's success has been her talent but like with ALL skaters luck plays a huge hand. For one thing, being born at the right time is a definite plus.

    I do wish Kimmie good fortune in the future. She seems to be working hard and will need to do just that to keep in front of the competition coming from the Japanese and elsewhere. What we should keep in mind is that the US is so fortunate to have a Kimmie Meissner at this time.

    Dizzy

  11. #41
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Nicely put, dizzy d. I agree, Kimmie doesn't have much in the 'special' talent area except maybe natural air rotation.

    I don't think anyone was comparing her to MK.

    Joe

  12. #42
    Custom Title demarinis5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Sasha's interpretation of Dark Eyes shows the meaning of the character of the music. Dark Eyes is a winner for her; the judges; and the audience. That is why I believe she will win the Campbells without a 3x3. She would be a fool not to use it. I don't see her using a new routine.

    Joe
    I have to agree. Sasha's interpretation of Dark Eyes will be very
    hard to beat if in fact she uses it at Cambells. Sasha performs that
    program brilliantly.

  13. #43
    MY TVC 1 5 SeaniBu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Very, very few skaters are skating to the music. They are so intent on getting in all their elements that interepretation and expressing the character of the music goes right out the window. This was especially true of Irina this year. All I saw from her was frantic skating at lightning speed. She might as well have been skating to white noise.
    That is TOO true Her Music was pretty much that as well.

    IMO, if the interpretation is lost then FS will lose a part of FS. And speaking of FS, what an opposite of the norm she is the way she places importance on the music and choreography.

    As MM said " No-body does it like Fu-mi-e. sung to the Sara Lee jingle.

  14. #44
    Custom Title heyang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by inloveagain View Post
    During the last 4 years, I got that 'buzz' from Ann-Patrice McDonough, Yukina Ota, Carolina Kostner and Miki Ando. Only 2 out of the 4 made it to Turino, 1 is injured and struggling to make a comeback and 1 has sadly left competitive skating. Kimmie is quite extraordinary in capturing the big win on her first Worlds, but I'm not going to predict any rosy colored future for her yet. Just like consistency is something you can't obtain from hours of practice, so is artistry. Miki Ando should know.

    I agree with Mafke - the competitive fire was there from the start with Michelle - 1997 was probably Michelle's most tentative year. As for Irina, I felt the fire since she made her comeback - not so much during her early years.

    I never got that buzz with Ann-Patrice and was not surprised when she retired from skating.

    I think Kimmie has proven her poise and her willingness to work at her skating and her drive for results. That's a pretty good base to build upon.

    For me, I want to see Kimmie improve - it's not neccessary for her to win, just prove that she wasn't a fluke.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Nicely put, dizzy d. I agree, Kimmie doesn't have much in the 'special' talent area except maybe natural air rotation.

    I don't think anyone was comparing her to MK.

    Joe
    I also agree with DizzyD.

    To me, talking about Kimmie in terms of saying she may not "win five world championships and nine national titles" IS comparing her to MK in a subtle way. All forms of comparison to MK IMO are ridiculous. (of course, if it was a joke that's another thing, but there's still that reference to MK included and that's what I'm getting at.)

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