Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Caroline Zhang rocks JGP Taipei

  1. #1
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,017

    Caroline Zhang rocks JGP Taipei

    With another flawless performance, Caroline Zhang easily won her second JGP title in Taipei.

    In the LP, Caroline nailed six clean triples including three combos. She scored 105 points and beat her own personal best at JGP Mexico by 2 points.

    In the SP, Caroline scored 57 points and crushed her closest competitor by almost 13 points. The protocols are out at

    http://www.isufs.org/results/jgptpe2006/SEG004.HTM


    Here's the new SP video on youtube for your entertainment.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_NxYVm6AjE


    I noticed that Caroline has already increased her speed on the ice since JGP Mexico, the only complaint I have is that her free leg seemed a bit wrapped while she did those jumps. She's absolutely gorgeous to watch. Her spins are fast and unique.

  2. #2
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,635
    Thanks for the scoop, Iloveaxel, and welcome to Goldenskate. Post often, post long!

    I am going to move this thread to the Events folder under "Junior Grand Prix," leaving a redirect in the Edge so more people will see it.

  3. #3
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,635
    With the Junior Grand Prix series drawing to a close, Caroline is almost 60 points ahead of everyone else in the total point standings.

    I checked out her jump layout in her LP. It was 3Lz, 2A, 3F+2T+2Lo, 3Lo, 3Lz+2T, 3F, 3T+2T. So she is presenting all of the triples except the Salchow. The only elements that she got negative GOEs on were her two Lutzes.

    Does anyone want to start laying in their bets for the 2010 Olympics, LOL?

    Joesitz told us a year ago to keep an eye on this one, and now she seems to be coming into full flower.
    Last edited by Mathman; 10-14-2006 at 01:30 PM.

  4. #4
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    I got issues
    Posts
    680
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Does anyone want to start laying in their bets for the 2010 Olympics, LOL?

    Joesitz told us a year ago to keep an eye on this one, and now she seems to be coming into full flower.
    Does anyone think that maybe she's "coming into full flower" a little too soon? Sure, there's a chance that she could be the 2010 Olympic champion, but there is also the possibility that she won't be a major factor at all by then. You can tell by her size that she hasn't reached puberty and we all know what that can do to a kid. She could also get injured or just burn out. I'm not making any predictions on her chances in 2010 until the 2009/2010 skating season begins!

  5. #5
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    1,243
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    The only elements that she got negative GOEs on were her two Lutzes.
    Has she the Flutz problem?? I ask because I didn't see any of her performances.

  6. #6
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,635
    If you clicked on the youtube link provided by Iloveaxel, you can also click here

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tQ38Mz6QyI

    and compare Caroline Zhang with Mao Asada at the same age. This is Asada's short program from the 2004 Juniour Grand Prix finals. Her LP from the same event -- in which she did a triple Axel and a triple-triple -- was available yesterday but now seems to be gone.

    Copmparing the two directly at age 14, I think Asada had greater speed and power (this is more apparent in her LP, however), and also more mature presentation.

  7. #7
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    7,642
    But Caroline is only 13 while Mao was 14 at her JGP debut. Mao had also had tremendous exposure and was a star in her own country long before she came to the JGP. Caroline is a virtual unknown, and she hasn't had Mao's experience.

  8. #8
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    20,185
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    But Caroline is only 13 while Mao was 14 at her JGP debut. Mao had also had tremendous exposure and was a star in her own country long before she came to the JGP. Caroline is a virtual unknown, and she hasn't had Mao's experience.
    First competition was SW Pacific Regionals - Juvenile - 2002 placing 9th.
    and then all sorts of Juvenile, Novice, Intermediate and then 3rd in Pacific Sectionals 2006 and then 8th in US Nats-Junior. She has not made big waves until this JGP. However, there were signs at the Nats last year.

    Joe

  9. #9
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    I got issues
    Posts
    680
    Quote Originally Posted by gio View Post
    Has she the Flutz problem?? I ask because I didn't see any of her performances.
    She has a BIG flutz problem. One of the worst I've seen, I think. It almost doesn't look like she even ATTEMPTS to do a lutz.

  10. #10
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    1,243
    Quote Originally Posted by dancindiva03 View Post
    She has a BIG flutz problem. One of the worst I've seen, I think. It almost doesn't look like she even ATTEMPTS to do a lutz.

    I downloaded some of her programs. It's true she has a BIG flutz problem and still she just receive a -1 GOE (and not from all the judges, one even gave her a +1!!!). Are these judges blind or what? I think that ISU has to talk with these judges. They can't overlook that problem, because just if they give her (and to other skaters too) for every flutz a -3, she will certainly try to solve the problem. If they overlook they'll just encourage her to continue to flutz.

  11. #11
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    UK - Manchester
    Posts
    4,913
    Quote Originally Posted by gio View Post
    Has she the Flutz problem?? I ask because I didn't see any of her performances.
    She does indeed - its not disimilar to Sarah hughe's Lutz in that she seems to kick her picking in leg up quite high before she picks in, but she also has the Cohen problem of going into both jumps the same way with a deepening outside edge and switching over to the inside on both jumps.

    As far as i see i that is pretty much her only problem because artistically she is just beautiful to watch and her spins are out of this world - the speed on her SP layback which she increases going into the sideways spin...and the variations on the Biellmann are impressive and nice to look at.

    She's also got an unassisted Y spiral channeling Shizuka (not as good as Shizuka's or held as long i don't think) but given she's a very young junior it is such an impressive start.

    Ant

  12. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    I got issues
    Posts
    680
    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    As far as i see i that is pretty much her only problem because artistically she is just beautiful to watch and her spins are out of this world - the speed on her SP layback which she increases going into the sideways spin...and the variations on the Biellmann are impressive and nice to look at.

    Ant
    Another problem she has is a serious lack of power. She and her coach/choreographer hide it well by ALWAYS using soft, slow pieces of music, but it is something she really needs to improve on. Caroline is drawing comparisons to a lot of great skaters (Kwan, Arakawa, Cohen, etc.), but all of them, even Sasha who has relatively weak stroking and not a ton of power, had a lot more power at 13 than Caroline does. She gets away with it by using the slow music, and also because she is still so small, but she will really need to improve on this as she grows.

  13. #13
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    UK - Manchester
    Posts
    4,913
    Quote Originally Posted by dancindiva03 View Post
    Another problem she has is a serious lack of power. She and her coach/choreographer hide it well by ALWAYS using soft, slow pieces of music, but it is something she really needs to improve on. Caroline is drawing comparisons to a lot of great skaters (Kwan, Arakawa, Cohen, etc.), but all of them, even Sasha who has relatively weak stroking and not a ton of power, had a lot more power at 13 than Caroline does. She gets away with it by using the slow music, and also because she is still so small, but she will really need to improve on this as she grows.
    Thanks for the info - its always so hard to tell power from watching on TV (and even harder on youtube!). Maybe the power and the speed will come as she grows.

    Actually i've just rewatched her SP and i thought she looked about a third shirt of rotation on the triple flip but she was credited with the full triple and only a coupl eof judges gave her -GOEs and couple gave her +GOEs.

    Actually looking at teh protocols are the junior judges less harsh thatn the senior ones? Because she flutzed pretty badly and her jumps don't seem particularly high or fast yet on her Lutz combo which was pretty severely flutzed she still got three judges giving "0" and one judge giving +1.

    Ant

  14. #14
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    1,243
    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post

    Actually looking at teh protocols are the junior judges less harsh thatn the senior ones? Because she flutzed pretty badly and her jumps don't seem particularly high or fast yet on her Lutz combo which was pretty severely flutzed she still got three judges giving "0" and one judge giving +1.

    Ant
    Unfortunately this happens also at the senior level. ISU has to talk with these judges, because I think that a -3 GOE for a flutz will be more constructive. Now the ladies knows that isn't important if they do a true Lutz or a Flutz.

  15. #15
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    I got issues
    Posts
    680
    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    Thanks for the info - its always so hard to tell power from watching on TV (and even harder on youtube!). Maybe the power and the speed will come as she grows.

    Actually i've just rewatched her SP and i thought she looked about a third shirt of rotation on the triple flip but she was credited with the full triple and only a coupl eof judges gave her -GOEs and couple gave her +GOEs.

    Actually looking at teh protocols are the junior judges less harsh thatn the senior ones? Because she flutzed pretty badly and her jumps don't seem particularly high or fast yet on her Lutz combo which was pretty severely flutzed she still got three judges giving "0" and one judge giving +1.

    Ant
    I think she's being propped up. She is not getting dinged by the judges for her little mistakes. No doubt she still deserved to win all her competitions so far, but I do NOT think that she should have been scored so much higher than the others. I hope the judges really start cracking down on her now, or she will never learn. Also, she's going to grow. The bigger you get, the harder it is to get away with poor technique.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •