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Thread: COP has NOT improved....

  1. #1
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    COP has NOT improved....

    COP has not improved things, in my opinion, in a couple of key areas. These are some impressions post-Campbells:

    Spins: quality of spins, on the whole, has gone down since the advent of COP. Skaters are trying to jam in too many positions and changes of position. They have sacrificed quality of position and speed to do so. As a result, many, if not most of the spins out there on the ice these days look laboured and you can't properly enjoy any of the positions in them because they change before you can blink.

    Three-jump combos: these are, quite simply, ugly. Especially if one or two of the jumps in question are edge jumps. Difficult, I know, blah, blah, blah. But ugly. And very slow exits with no speed. And that's got to count for something.

    I actually didn't see the overload of Beillman positions that I did last year, so maybe things are a-changing. I, for one, would be very greatful if this is the case. It was sooooo dull to watch last year.

    I like the COP on the whole, but I think these are some areas where there can be tweaks to the system. Sometimes, simpler is just as good or better or than complex with mediocre execution.

    Feel free to add to my list.

  2. #2
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    I completely agree about the problem of spins. So few skaters were able to pull off the difficult "level 3" spins with speed, good position, or balance. It was embarassing and upsetting. Fortunately, it's just the beginning of the season and skaters will improve in this area, but I do wish there were simpler and cleaner spins on the market!

    But I don't agree about 3-jump combos because when done well (i.e. Oda or Asada) they are very exciting and showcase ahtlethicism and strength. And it was nice to see women down to two Biellman positions in their LPs, but actually I'd like to see it cut down even more. Only once in the SP and once in the LP should be allowed!

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    Also, I hate the twizzle requirements in dance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasper View Post
    Also, I hate the twizzle requirements in dance.
    I don't mind the required twizzles...but one sequence is really enough to determine whether the skaters can do them or not. I find this a problem particularly in the OD straight-line sequences. It's devolved to almost entirely twizzles — a lot of them bad — and little other footwork. The over-twizzling has also made them slow, slow, slow.

    In fact, same with a lot of the straight-line footwork sequences in general....it seems as if the cramming for points (not just twizzles) in the singles discipline has likewise created slow, overloaded footwork sequences placed musically as if they were showcases of fantastic technique when they usually tend to suggest exactly the opposite. Again, if they can't do it well, I'd rather see them do something simpler.

  5. #5
    bugs are smarter than we are bronxgirl's Avatar
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    CoP has not improved the musicality and sense of feeling the music. It seems that things are done for the point value, not necessarily if it adds to the sense of feeling the music on the ice (JMHO)

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    Quote Originally Posted by bronxgirl View Post
    CoP has not improved the musicality and sense of feeling the music. It seems that things are done for the point value, not necessarily if it adds to the sense of feeling the music on the ice (JMHO)
    Absolutely, but you know the fans are as bad as the judges in demanding quads from Men and 3As from the Ladies along with convoluted spinning. And all those tricks (that's all they are) transfer into the PCS scores. What is the point of using music? If a skater does a quad or a 3A, and a special mixed up spin, that skater wins regardless of the music.

    Joe

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    MY TVC 1 5 SeaniBu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bronxgirl View Post
    CoP has not improved the musicality and sense of feeling the music. It seems that things are done for the point value, not necessarily if it adds to the sense of feeling the music on the ice (JMHO)
    Mine too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Absolutely, but you know the fans are as bad as the judges in demanding quads from Men and 3As from the Ladies along with convoluted spinning. And all those tricks (that's all they are) transfer into the PCS scores. What is the point of using music? If a skater does a quad or a 3A, and a special mixed up spin, that skater wins regardless of the music.

    Joe
    Great point(s) I am one of those fans that doesn't feel it necessary for the 4ts and such, most of those fans would be hard pressed to tell the difference between a 3 and a 4 when live IMO. If any thing I would feel that 2 or 3 "2" combos could be done in the place of a "4a."

    What about a required number of points in the submitted programme - i.e. 28 - 32 points aloud only and the grade of -3 - +3 is the definer??? JAT
    Last edited by SeaniBu; 10-16-2006 at 08:15 PM.

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    I agree on alot of those points. I already said that it seemed strange that Plushenko and Lysacek would regularly get higher spin total points then Lambiel and Buttle. You get more points for spins based on alot of position and edge changes which make them unattractive and jerky, and there is not nearly enough emphasis on GOE on spins.

    I dont like how the PCS scores are all within such a similar range of one another, even with skaters clearly exceling more in some areas of PCS then others.

    I dont think triple-triples get enough extra credit when you break down how you can max out jumping values, and you certainly dont benefit enough from doing a harder triple-triple, like ones ending with a triple loop and starting with a harder triple. I dont agree with a fall on a quad getting more points then alot of clean triples, atleast before factoring in possable loss of PCS.

  9. #9
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    This is what I think of COP (Sorry for COP fans, but IMO it is a complete failure).
    Once figure skating was a sport and an art. Now with COP it is just a sport! First, practically all the skaters do the same elements (the Free program is now a "long short program"). Once every skater had an element that was her/his/their signature element. Also, now it is not important if an element is aestethical (sp?) (I'm referring to spins and steps). To conclude COP blocks innovative skaters.
    Let's return to the simple 6.0 system.

  10. #10
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    The most recent issue of Spotlight on Skating has both Buttle and Kurt Browning lamenting the loss of camel spins under CoP. Buttle said he really liked his camel spin, but since he doesn't get enough points for it, he doesn't do it.

  11. #11
    Yeah! Lets get this party started. enlight78's Avatar
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    I think the problem with the spins could be solve by judges being more firm with the goe's. Slow and ugly spins should get a goe of -6. But there are a lot more problems with cop than that. Hopefully the kinks will be worked out by 2010. I have a feeling it is going to be a long progress.

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