The "New Class" of Artists - Ladies

Watching Caroline Zhang has inspired me to start a new thread after not posting in ages - hello everyone!

She definitely fits into what I'm looking to designate as the new class of artists, up and comers who grab us with their style, flow from move to move, and musicality, much as Sasha and Michelle have done for a generation or more. I see Caroline Zhang as the continuation of the Michelle and Sasha tradition, so to speak, and it makes total sense to watch her channel these great American figure skating artists in her JGP 06 program, as she was raised a US skater with these iconic ladies for role models. I find it touching and uncanny how she's channeling Michelle with so many of her moves in that SP. Are any Michelle fans similarly moved by Caroline's reverent evocation of her fellow Chinese-American skater's grace and emotion, coming at a time where we're missing Michelle? I really enjoyed her skating, found it so influenced by Michelle, but not in a way that it seems like she's aping her - the girl clearly has grace and talent of her own, which puts me at ease - with the advent of CoP and what it's done to the average program (not that of people who can flow from move to move and make programs great, whatever the scoring system and requirements, on the level of a Sasha), I was about to despair for moving, program-driven, musical skaters. I guess I started this post to put myself at ease :smile:

Anyway, back to my main topic (all about the new artists):
From the reports on Campbell's, Mai Asada is another one to watch, and I'm going to check her out on Youtube asap. Also, Yukina Ota has been AWOL for some time now, which worries me; I loved her skating from the first time I saw her. However, there is a video of her doing a horribly cheesy exhibition or skating show in Japan, with awful makeup. I hope she returns to eligible skating someday...

Yay, artistic skaters!!!!

Who else should I be swooning over, folks?:-D

I am another one eagerly awaiting the new class of artists! While I do enjoy Kimmie and Mao and watching them push the technical enevelope in jumps, what made me a skating fan is watching skaters bring about passion, joy, heart on sleeves, just emotional pieces!

From Japan, we do have Mai, Yukina (I believe she is returning to action this fall???) and Fumie is still in the mix-she can always summon up tears from this poster! If Miki can build on a fanastic debut from Campbell's, she may be one to combine artistry with difficult jumps and spins. If only she could fix that spiral...

As for the US ladies, Caroline is a couple of years away, but Bebe, Alissa and Katy show promise! There is Racheal Flatts, who reminds me a lot of Jenny Kirk, so she may be one to bring it artistically, we'll have to see.

Another skater who really grabbed my interest as a complete, all-around skater is Yu Na Kim. I'm not sure how consistent she is, but if she can nail her jumps, I really think she will be one to watch for. She has a lot of good things about her skating (again, please fix your spiral!) and I find her more musical than Mao or Kimmie.

It's going to be an interesting season, finding out where all these young skaters stack against each other, and COP!

My taste is probably different from yours, so I won't tell you who to swoon over.

From the videos I've seen so far this year, I particularly enjoyed Nana Takeda's performances from the Taipei JGP. Skating to a modern version of Swan Lake in the SP, she seemed to emphasize flow and freedom of movement rather than delicacy, which I definitely appreciate.

Not to detract from the topic but this whole "artist" topic is exactly what pounds the "non-sport" into FS. In other words, I don't believe that someone can like skating for the artistry and still expect people to call it a "real" sport.

It's not as though I said,"Pfftt! to jumps! I only want artistry!" I want complete, all-around skaters. Ones who can do all the jumps and combos needed, spins and spirals, while also interpreting the music. IMO, it depends what you consider "sport." I think sport consists of any physical activity. On one hand, skating, especially at the elite level, requires strength and stamina. Skaters are athletics who can bench press as much as a football player. How can that not be sport? But in the other hand, skating IS subjective. There is no absolute when you have PCS marks. Baseball is not subjective. Either you score, or you don't. Yes, human error does come in to play, but that is another topic.

Back O/T...gkelly-noone is saying any fan has to swoon over skaters of another person's choice. This thread is about who to watch for in the "New Class" of artists. I have not heard of Nana Takeda or seen her performances from the Taipei JGP. But I will be on the look out now! Thanks!

MKFS- I can't fully address your point without bringing up and discussing the age-old topic "what is a sport" and "how do you define 'physical activity'? - in other words, completely "hijacking" the thread. I'll save that for another discussion. But I will say that just because there is "physical activity" involved in something does not necessarily make it a sport. At least IMO.

I sent you a PM.

Red Dog said:

MKFS- I can't fully address your point without bringing up and discussing the age-old topic "what is a sport"

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I can, look it up in the dictionary. Not trying to be snooty or sarcastic at all. I have found this to cure peoples questions a lot. The first time was when asked what is the meaning of life. Well, phrased that way, what other answer would there be.

There is no question it is a sport, the question is do people think that their definition of a words meaning is 'sposed to be what everyone else thinks too. The only thing that says to me is that they think themselves the "all defining, all knowing, able to change meanings of words."

On the topic- I believe it will take time for a new generation of "artists" to develop. But the new Cop system encourages more TECH, which in my view can be considered a good thing if we're to talk about sports. But if not, then that's not such a good thing. What IS figure skating, exactly? Do we want to show off what we can do on the ice or do we need to get into the music playing in the background? Or do we want to encompass a little of both? If we combine them we have to compromise somewhere, right? I doubt there will be a skater heavy in the TECH department who can "interpret" music well. OTOH, someone who can "interpret" music well probably might struggle when it comes to doing a fully-loaded 6 or 7-triple program...or may not have the height or power in their jumps, etc. in other words compromise has to be made somewhere.

So take your pick. These aren't clear-cut "rules", btw, obviously but I find them to hold true in most general cases. I suppose what I'm really getting at here is I'm not quite convinced there will be a future generation of "artists". Some have the NATURAL ability to interpret and express their feelings out there and I think that's what we're seeing in skaters like Caroline Zhang for instance. Will that ability get them more points, though? I take it there might be a few skaters who can really impress an audience. But they might not be the best SKATERS in terms of Cop points.

gkelly said:

My taste is probably different from yours, so I won't tell you who to swoon over.

From the videos I've seen so far this year, I particularly enjoyed Nana Takeda's performances from the Taipei JGP. Skating to a modern version of Swan Lake in the SP, she seemed to emphasize flow and freedom of movement rather than delicacy, which I definitely appreciate.

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But Nana did only double jumps. It's easy to have flow and freedom of movement if you're not going for the triples. She turns 18 in December, and has been in the JGP for years but she can't move up to Seniors without the triple jumps.

I saw Ye Bin Mok's SP and FS from Regionals on the new USFS webcast. Her FS in particular was a lovely performance, but she only did doubles and a single axel. As pleasing to watch as her performance was, Ye Bin cannot make it past Regionals in Seniors with that jump repertoire. She is just returning to skating from a long absence and may be able to get some of her triples back, but she is not a youngster any more and it's going to be a challenge (if she intends to continue competitively).

chuckm said:

But Nana did only double jumps. It's easy to have flow and freedom of movement if you're not going for the triples. She turns 18 in December, and has been in the JGP for years but she can't move up to Seniors without the triple jumps.

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In the short program, yes. And most of the junior ladies only attempted one anyway.

Checking the protocols, in the long programs, she landed clean triple loop and triple toe at both her events and a not-quite-clean second triple loop in Taipei. I did see and enjoy that long program as well, which won her a silver medal, and she won gold in Romania.

Whether she'll ever have more than two usable triples or place as well in senior competitions as she does in juniors is another question. I thought we were talking about skaters whose artistry we enjoy, not predicting future medals.

Medals aren't what I was talking about. Nana is a Japanese skater, and the competition for Senior assignments is intense. She has one more season in the JGP, then if she can't upgrade her jumping, you may not get to see her any more.

I really don't understand the obsession with the "is figure skating a sport?" thing. It is what it is. To me, a better question is, what do we need to do make figure skating an attractive choice for people looking to spend their entertainment dollar?

Just because something is hard to do doesn't mean that anyone wants to watch me do it. To me, figure skating should concentrate on what sets it apart from other athletic endeavors, not try to mimic them.

"Someone who can interpret music well [while] doing a fully-loaded 6 or 7-triple program...?" (to quote Red Dog). Well, she's gone, but bring on the next generation of artists! :yes:

To me, a better question is, what do we need to do make figure skating an attractive choice for people looking to spend their entertainment dollar?

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Wasn't FS once a top draw? I think what the skating fans need to ask themselves is what happened to get FS off the map (again). I don't know but I can take a stab at it: the JUDGING and the SCANDALS.

There is a similarity in non-team sports. Diving, for one, is very much judged on the technique of the athlete. The Dives are classically designed for beauty.

Although music is used in Ladies Gymnastics, it is not the paramount consideration in the winning of one of their disciplines.

Figure Skating seems to be a group of tricks spread out on the arena's ice, and executed to the sound of music. The artistic claim comes from the fact that it borrows bodily movements from established dance forms. SOI is a good example.

For the most part, the tricks are measurable for a final score in a sporting environment. The artistry is in the eyes of the viewers (and judges). Competitive figure skating combines these separate parts and the results are subjective because of the borrowed artistry from other sources.

The above is JMO.

Joesitz said:

There is a similarity in non-team sports. Diving, for one, is very much judged on the technique of the athlete. The Dives are classically designed for beauty.

Although music is used in Ladies Gymnastics, it is not the paramount consideration in the winning of one of their disciplines.

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Yes, and woe be to the athletes in these disciplines who fail to point their toes!

Red Dog said:

Wasn't FS once a top draw? I think what the skating fans need to ask themselves is what happened to get FS off the map (again). I don't know but I can take a stab at it: the JUDGING and the SCANDALS.

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I agree. Also, some passive channel surfer might say, "I don't get this judging system. What else is on?" :/

Actually, I don't really see Caroline Zhang as an artist yet. She does have amazing positions and extension in her spins and spirals, and utilizes her flexibility beautifully, but she actually can be pretty rough in her transitions between the technical elements. And so far I haven't been really able to tell how her musicality is. I think it's too early to say anything.

Hi Shine. - She has flow and she's a kid. Hopefully, the Rockers and Counters will come around by the time she is 16, and that once in a lifetime skate will be there by 18. We have to wait and see.

Joe

shine said:

Actually, I don't really see Caroline Zhang as an artist yet. She does have amazing positions and extension in her spins and spirals, and utilizes her flexibility beautifully, but she actually can be pretty rough in her transitions between the technical elements. And so far I haven't been really able to tell how her musicality is. I think it's too early to say anything.

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If you can't see it now you arn't looking correctly. Classic DANCE lines and positions. Not just a skater but a dancer who skates! All dancers are artist. Caroline IS an artist now, especially compared to Kimmie or Emily! Sounds to me that you are looking for an athlete.

sk8addict said:

If you can't see it now you arn't looking correctly. Classic DANCE lines and positions. Not just a skater but a dancer who skates! All dancers are artist. Caroline IS an artist now, especially compared to Kimmie or Emily! Sounds to me that you are looking for an athlete.

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No, it takes more than classic lines and postitions to be an artist. And actually sometimes, Zhang doesn't even have classic lines and positions.