- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
What is all this about 'non scoring event'? I thought they did away with that unfair system.
Joe
Skate Canada Preview
- Thread starter gsk8
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Joe
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2005
After the season Joannie and Alissa had last year I am looking for both of them to do well. They have no place to go but up.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
There are so many teams in this GP series who have 2 events and I have never heard of them in international competition. I suppose they enter those little comps and qualify. I'm thinking of Aganina/Knyazev as an example. Were they in one of those little comps I never heard of?
I think NNN will be at least 2nd in US Nats and therefore qualify for Worlds. Praise to be.
Joe
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
I was going to ask the same question - i thought that a third GP that was non points scoring had been done away with?
Ant
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
I don't think its a case of having to compete in "little" and "unheard of" competitions. Its a case of having to compete internationally and accrue points to make it into the top 75 world rankings. New partnerships are always going to be at this disadvantage in trying to get two assignments on the GP but everybody has to start somewhere and it was the USFSA's decisions to not send them to the smaller competitions to get the points required to get an international ranking.
Ant
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2006
With the exception of Pairs. It seems there just aren't enough teams competing internationally to fill the roster. (especially with all these withdrawls...)
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2006
I've been wondering the same thing. Did the USFSA have to send their top 3 pairs teams to 4CC last year? Why not use the same approach as with singles - I&B and H&P just go to Olympics and Worlds and give spots on 4CC to lower-ranked teams such as NNN&TL to let them gain international experience and garner some points for GP assignments. JMO.
The scores from specific events were used for the "Seasons Best" list. These were the Olympics, ISU Championships (Euros, 4CC, Jr Worlds, Worlds), GP and JGP events, and Karl Schafer.
Aganina/Knyazev had two GP events last season, competed at the 2005 4CC and were #36 on the Seasons Best Pairs list (4CC score).
NN/L will surely be a top 75 scorer on the Pairs list next season based on their SA score, whether or not they go to 4CC.
I hope that Castile/Okolski (who won Nebelhorn last month) get a shot at 4CC. So far, only Nebelhorn has held a Pairs competition and the ISU might include Nebelhorn this year, but a 4CC berth would ensure that C/O get their chance at a GP event next year. C/O were on the 75 best list (#34) but were bypassed, possibly because the USFS didn't nominate them for the GP. I hope the USFS doesn't make a similar mistake next season.
The USFS offers the ISU Championship events to the top-ranked finishers at US Nationals, in order of their placement. It wouldn't be fair to bypass the top teams in favor of lower-ranked ones if the top teams want a chance at the Championship. The top US Singles don't often want to go to 4CC because they prefer to concentrate on Worlds/Jr. Worlds. They are offered the chance to go, and usually decline. But the top Pairs and Dance teams almost always want to do 4CC. Last season, Gregory/Petukhov withdrew due to illness, allowing Matthews/Zavozin to go (and win a silver medal)
Aganina/Knyazev had two GP events last season, competed at the 2005 4CC and were #36 on the Seasons Best Pairs list (4CC score).
NN/L will surely be a top 75 scorer on the Pairs list next season based on their SA score, whether or not they go to 4CC.
I hope that Castile/Okolski (who won Nebelhorn last month) get a shot at 4CC. So far, only Nebelhorn has held a Pairs competition and the ISU might include Nebelhorn this year, but a 4CC berth would ensure that C/O get their chance at a GP event next year. C/O were on the 75 best list (#34) but were bypassed, possibly because the USFS didn't nominate them for the GP. I hope the USFS doesn't make a similar mistake next season.
The USFS offers the ISU Championship events to the top-ranked finishers at US Nationals, in order of their placement. It wouldn't be fair to bypass the top teams in favor of lower-ranked ones if the top teams want a chance at the Championship. The top US Singles don't often want to go to 4CC because they prefer to concentrate on Worlds/Jr. Worlds. They are offered the chance to go, and usually decline. But the top Pairs and Dance teams almost always want to do 4CC. Last season, Gregory/Petukhov withdrew due to illness, allowing Matthews/Zavozin to go (and win a silver medal)
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- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
About this 3rd non scoring GP. I presume the Sieudiks' do not score Skate America, but they still finished 2nd. It would seem then that the best scores towards the GPF would be:
Inoue/Baldwin - 15 points
Sieudik/Sieudik - 0 points (13 if it counts for GPF)
Nan/Leftheris - 11 points
If it's the Sieudiks non scoring event then the system is still unfair as it was before because N/L might have gotten 13 points for second.
Am I correct?
Joe
Inoue/Baldwin - 15 points
Sieudik/Sieudik - 0 points (13 if it counts for GPF)
Nan/Leftheris - 11 points
If it's the Sieudiks non scoring event then the system is still unfair as it was before because N/L might have gotten 13 points for second.
Am I correct?
Joe
Yes, the Siudeks take those 13 points out of contention, just as I/B will take whatever points they score out of contention at SC, and Marcoux/Buntin will take the points they score out of contention at CoC.
But what can you do? There aren't enough uninjured Pairs teams that still remain together to fill all the slots. I think what has to happen next season is that the GP criteria for Pairs has to be amended in some way. Castile/Okolski was apparently not submitted by the USFS for GP invitations when the ISU lists were being drawn up, even though they had a fairly high ranking on the PB list. The USFS should have been given the option to amend their submission list based on summer competitions or early fall "B" internationals.
But what can you do? There aren't enough uninjured Pairs teams that still remain together to fill all the slots. I think what has to happen next season is that the GP criteria for Pairs has to be amended in some way. Castile/Okolski was apparently not submitted by the USFS for GP invitations when the ISU lists were being drawn up, even though they had a fairly high ranking on the PB list. The USFS should have been given the option to amend their submission list based on summer competitions or early fall "B" internationals.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
As far as I can see the only teams that have non-scoring events are Zagorski & Siudek (Skate America), Inoue & Baldwin (Skate Canada) Marcoux & Buntin (Cup of China) and Zhang & Zhang (Eric Bompard).
Originally the point of allowing a third GP event was simply to make sure that each contest had a big name or two to draw in the fans. Back in the day part of the strategy was not only to score well in your own two scoring events, but also to knock out the competition by taking points away from them in your non-scoring events.
Originally the point of allowing a third GP event was simply to make sure that each contest had a big name or two to draw in the fans. Back in the day part of the strategy was not only to score well in your own two scoring events, but also to knock out the competition by taking points away from them in your non-scoring events.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
And knock out competitors they will. UNFAIR, imo.
Joe
Joe
I don't think the Siudeks really knocked anyone out. Sure, NN/L would have gotten silver, but they weren't eligible for a second event anyway. Cody/Hay's next event is CoR, where they are unlikely to medal in a field with the Pettikhs, Sav/Szol, the Siudeks, and WakaFeau, so a bronze at SA and a 4th or 5th at CoR wouldn't have moved them into the GPF anyway.
Marcoux/Buntin have just as good a chance for silver at SC as I/B, maybe better, since I/B are injured. The only other team at SC who might get shifted out is Volosozhar/Morozov, and they still have a shot to beat I/B. Where V/M get shafted is at TEB, where they have to contend with 3rd-spot Zhangs, I/B and the Pettikhs, as well as Obertas/Slavnov.
In fact, I see TEB as the really tough spot because there are three seeds (I/B, Pettikhs and Z/Z). Obertas/Slavnov get zapped as well as V/M. In fact, I/B could lose out on the GPF, too, if they haven't recovered from their injuries. They pretty much have to medal to seal the deal. If they finish 4th they might or might not get in.
Marcoux/Buntin have just as good a chance for silver at SC as I/B, maybe better, since I/B are injured. The only other team at SC who might get shifted out is Volosozhar/Morozov, and they still have a shot to beat I/B. Where V/M get shafted is at TEB, where they have to contend with 3rd-spot Zhangs, I/B and the Pettikhs, as well as Obertas/Slavnov.
In fact, I see TEB as the really tough spot because there are three seeds (I/B, Pettikhs and Z/Z). Obertas/Slavnov get zapped as well as V/M. In fact, I/B could lose out on the GPF, too, if they haven't recovered from their injuries. They pretty much have to medal to seal the deal. If they finish 4th they might or might not get in.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
I'm aware that NNN/Lefty would only be in the one comp, but I was speaking about the principle of the thing. Also if you ever skate, and you find out you were placed 17th and you thought you should have been 16th, it hurts.
[
In men's, I don't think Johnny Weir has found his mojo yet. He still seems to be struggling with his music and with what he wants to accomplish out there. I think Stephane has this one in the bag.[/QUOTE]
I don't understand where this came from, Johnny has only skated his new short program once and he scored 78.06. His new free skate program has not been seen yet so how can you say he is struggling with his music when no one has seen the program yet?
In men's, I don't think Johnny Weir has found his mojo yet. He still seems to be struggling with his music and with what he wants to accomplish out there. I think Stephane has this one in the bag.[/QUOTE]
I don't understand where this came from, Johnny has only skated his new short program once and he scored 78.06. His new free skate program has not been seen yet so how can you say he is struggling with his music when no one has seen the program yet?
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
I hope to be proved wrong in a couple of days! 
To me, it seemed like his short program music (Chess) this year is of the same type that he attempted last year with his Maksim Mrvica selection. Kind of a techno-beat thing that, to me, didn't really go anywhere and did not allow Johnny to "be himself" on the ice. Last year he had to abandon that type of music and go back to Otonal. (His Swan was great, however).
To me, Johnny is at his best with beautiful music, not some weirdo stuff. His best program of all, IMHO, was his Unchained Melody exhibition number
That program brought the house down in COI every time he performed it.
Some people are praising him for trying to stretch and reach out of his comfort zone, but if the mock-macho SP that we saw at Campbell's is the result, I like the old Johnny better.
As for his LP music (Child of Nazareth), I hope for the best. But Johnny as Jesus -- I don't know -- as I say, I'll hope for the best this weekend.
To me, it seemed like his short program music (Chess) this year is of the same type that he attempted last year with his Maksim Mrvica selection. Kind of a techno-beat thing that, to me, didn't really go anywhere and did not allow Johnny to "be himself" on the ice. Last year he had to abandon that type of music and go back to Otonal. (His Swan was great, however).
To me, Johnny is at his best with beautiful music, not some weirdo stuff. His best program of all, IMHO, was his Unchained Melody exhibition number
That program brought the house down in COI every time he performed it. Some people are praising him for trying to stretch and reach out of his comfort zone, but if the mock-macho SP that we saw at Campbell's is the result, I like the old Johnny better.
As for his LP music (Child of Nazareth), I hope for the best. But Johnny as Jesus -- I don't know -- as I say, I'll hope for the best this weekend.
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2005
I don't know about Johnny as Jesus either.
But his LP music is pretty great, I think. You can listen to it at
http://www.maximerodriguez.fr
by going to the "Accueil" page and clicking "Ecouter."
The FS music is gorgeous and it suits him!
I will be praying for Johnny to finally have his breakout year. His attitude seems so much more positive than it was last year. I can't wait to see his new programs once he is truly comfortable with them.
I will be praying for Johnny to finally have his breakout year. His attitude seems so much more positive than it was last year. I can't wait to see his new programs once he is truly comfortable with them.
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- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
But its not really the same thing is it? If Sagorska and Suidek beat all of the other couples, the other couples didn't really beat them just because it a non point scoring event? As an athlete i don't think anyone will leave a competition thinknig that they really finished one place higher because it someone's non point scoring event - as an athlete you want to beat all the competition and you didn't. Having a gripe with the way points are awarded for entry into the GP final is a different issue but i'm not sure its that important and that somebody's non point scoring event changes the final entry to teh GPF that much.
Ant
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Still, if they are going to change the rules just for pairs because they don't have enough competitors to field a full slate, I think it would have been better to relax the selection criteria than to give selected teams an extra event. Give more rising young teams a chance to get their feet wet.
