I'm so tired of SL footwork

BravesSkateFan · Nov 5, 2006

I've posting this is a couple forums becuase its really frustrating me and I need to vent....

I just watch a bunch of the ladies programs from SA and SC and it hit me that for the last couple years it seems like everyone is doing Straightline footwork and nothing else. Its really starting to get on my nerves.
I love a serpentine fw sequence which we barely saw under 6.0 let alone CoP. The only one I can recall off the top of my head in recent years is Cohen's from the Lalique version of Swan Lake. In the past it seemed the ladies were about 50/50 on SL vs. Cir. footwork but now we're lucky if we see any circular footwork at all. Its not just the ladies either.
I had though under CoP we'd see more serpentine fw. Since it covers more of the rink the skaters would be able to put in more moves without it seeming as frantic as it can with a SL fw. Or at least they could pack in more points if they wanted.

This is one of the reasons I'm finding a lot of the CoP programs to be similar. I just wish the chorographers would put in at least some circular footwork just to change it up a bit.

anya_angie · Nov 5, 2006

One of my favorite step sequences was Kulik's "Revolutions" (Icharus) short program footwork from 97-98, it was serpentine too. I do wish more skaters would try to do that sort of sequence. It allows you to appreciate the footwork more.

CzarinaAnya · Nov 6, 2006

Yagudin,(especially Man in the Iron Mask) doing the straightline footwork that Morozov choreographed for him was magic....but none of the other guys seem to be able to live up to THAT, for me. In the ladies field Sasha Cohen comes close to being that good, but that's it.

antmanb · Nov 6, 2006

The trouble is that with all the elements and things required to pack a COP program (especially the SP) there is no incentive on the skaters to include serpetine step squences. If you think about it the shortest step sequence to do is the straightline since it is usually just the length of the long side down the rink (a little bit longer if its diagonal). Next is the circular step sequence which has to reach either end and be in a circular shape, so will be more than 2 x the width of the rink given the ciruclar element. Finally the longest and its the longest by a lot is teh serpentine step sequence which crosses the width of the rink three times and crosses the full length of the rink.

It would be suicide for a skater to use up the extra time and stamina required to pull of the serpentine step sequence when a straightline one will do.

I miss the ladies doing nice circular spiral sequences, nowadays the sprial sequnce doesn't even have a shape - its whatever shape you can make when you have to change edge, yank your skate over your head, pee on the fire hydrant and swing your leg back.

Ant

Joesitz (RIP) · Nov 6, 2006

I'm with Bravefanskate on this. There is much more skating and less toe picking in serpentine footwork than straightline footwork. Much more difficult, too. It's easier to turn on a toe pick then on an edge while keeping to the music. Sonia Henie toepicked all her latin numbers.

Although it was straightline footwork, I think Kwan had the best skated footwork ever in her Concerto de Aranjez. Cheers to Morozov for that. Still I prefer serpentine footwork which is what good choreography is all about and it tests the skater more on edging.

I know it's tough but hey, what's a competition all about? easy?

Joe

antmanb · Nov 6, 2006

Joesitz said:
I'm with Bravefanskate on this. There is much more skating and less toe picking in serpentine footwork than straightline footwork. Much more difficult, too. It's easier to turn on a toe pick then on an edge while keeping to the music. Sonia Henie toepicked all her latin numbers.

Although it was straightline footwork, I think Kwan had the best skated footwork ever in her Concerto de Aranjez. Cheers to Morozov for that. Still I prefer serpentine footwork which is what good choreography is all about and it tests the skater more on edging.

I know it's tough but hey, what's a competition all about? easy?

Joe

I'm with you on the seprentine footwork Joe - i love seeing it and it looks so beautiful when the skater turns in the opposite direction to the way the lobe turns - it is so effective and can really highlight music beauitfully. However, when a serpentine sequence is given the same base value as all the other step sequences (3.4) where is the inentive to add this to a program given that it takes more energy and time to get done than a straightline one? The competition seems to boil down to who has the highest score and since the serpentine gets the same as circular or straightline, which would you go for...baring in mind that base value for a level 3 serpentine step sequence is almost exactly the same as a base level double axel?

Ant

Joesitz (RIP) · Nov 6, 2006

Ant - I see what you mean. It's a Skater's Choice and why not pick the easier of the two. They do have some skaters doing circular footwork which in my book has not been very good. Do they grade circular the same?

Joe

antmanb · Nov 6, 2006

Joesitz said:
Ant - I see what you mean. It's a Skater's Choice and why not pick the easier of the two. They do have some skaters doing circular footwork which in my book has not been very good. Do they grade circular the same?

Joe

Sadly all three types of step sequence (straightline, circular and serpentine) are given exactly the same points. I suppose trying to work through a logic that might make a skater choose to do a serpentine yuo could argue that having to do a much longer step sequence gives you more time in which to tirn in btoh directions, use difficult turns, spend half the step sequence with your body close to the ice to rack up a level three.

Arguably with the three lobes in a serpentine sequence you can naturally rotate in the direction of the lobe and therefore qualify for the turns in each direction more easily than in a straightline or cirlcular step sequence.

Maybe someone will show themselves as a truly outstanding skater and use the serpentine sequence regardless of the logical use of oneof the other two.

Another thing i'd like to see getting extra points (or maybe getting +GOEs) is doing the circular step sequence in the opposite direction to that the skater normally rotates in.

Ant

BravesSkateFan · Nov 6, 2006

I think it would be a good thing if the ISU made the serpentine step one of the features you could choose for a level 4 step sequence. Perhaps we'd see more skaters doing it.

antmanb · Nov 6, 2006

BravesSkateFan said:
I think it would be a good thing if the ISU made the serpentine step one of the features you could choose for a level 4 step sequence. Perhaps we'd see more skaters doing it.

Simply setting the base level higher for circular step sequences caompared to straightline and even higher for serpentine would resolve that. Purely from the persepctive of length of step sequence that would be justifiable.

Ant

BravesSkateFan · Nov 6, 2006

antmanb said:
Simply setting the base level higher for circular step sequences caompared to straightline and even higher for serpentine would resolve that. Purely from the persepctive of length of step sequence that would be justifiable.

Ant

Thats true, but I think the ISU might be more likely just to make it a feature. But who knows with them. They're actually not likely to do anything. :eek:

hwell:

antmanb · Nov 6, 2006

BravesSkateFan said:
Thats true, but I think the ISU might be more likely just to make it a feature. But who knows with them. They're actually not likely to do anything. hwell:

Sadly i think you're absolutely right and nothing will be done.

Ant

Joesitz (RIP) · Nov 6, 2006

And there is no guarantee that skaters choosing a higher level serpentine foot work will do it admirably. I can foretell a lot of mishaps particularly at the change over from outside to inside. Not easy for skaters not versed in school figures.

Joe

BravesSkateFan · Nov 6, 2006

Joesitz said:
And there is no guarantee that skaters choosing a higher level serpentine foot work will do it admirably.

same can be said for the SL footwork as well, but if we are going to see bad sequences I'd rather see a varitey. lol

SeaniBu · Nov 6, 2006

Variety YES! Something I real like about dance is some of the Mirror and serpentine they do. That is so wonderful to watch. Ira did for her 05 Cup o Russia's SP didn't she???

antmanb · Nov 7, 2006

Joesitz said:
And there is no guarantee that skaters choosing a higher level serpentine foot work will do it admirably. I can foretell a lot of mishaps particularly at the change over from outside to inside. Not easy for skaters not versed in school figures.

Joe

Well the field moves exercises, certianly by the time you hit the senior test definitely work the serpentine patterns for certain moves and turns so the skaters should be ok with them.

Ant

Joesitz (RIP) · Nov 7, 2006

antmanb said:
Well the field moves exercises, certianly by the time you hit the senior test definitely work the serpentine patterns for certain moves and turns so the skaters should be ok with them. Ant

The key word is 'should'.

antmanb · Nov 7, 2006

Joesitz said:
The key word is 'should'.

True, although i think the test standards get more and more difficult as you advance to the point where not only power control and edge quality are looked at but the pattern is very important too. Though i guess you only have to pass the test the once to pass it and after that not concentrate on it any more.

The flip side though is that figures where never done on a serpentine the length and breadth of the rink - i thought the most you had was the serpentine of a figure eight? There are plenty of fieldmoves done on that figure 8 pattern too.

Ant

Joesitz (RIP) · Nov 7, 2006

What figures did do was when you finished your hour of serpentines, you wanted to get out on the whole ice and do serpentines and be free of the confinement of school figures. Your counters and rockers were so much the better from what you did in serpentines.

antmanb · Nov 7, 2006

Joesitz said:
What figures did do was when you finished your hour of serpentines, you wanted to get out on the whole ice and do serpentines and be free of the confinement of school figures. Your counters and rockers were so much the better from what you did in serpentines.

I can see that being very true. My coach is one of those who detested figures in every way...his friend who coaches my friend is the total opposite and loved and still love them and they both will often mock argue about the relative benefits and pitfalsl of figures!

Ant

I'm so tired of SL footwork

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