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Thread: Why I think Cohen deserved silver in Turin.

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    Why I think Cohen deserved silver in Turin.

    People still say today Cohen did not deserve silver in Turin. I think she did because:

    -Slutskaya had the worst free skate I have ever seen from her in 2 years since she was really sick. Not only the 2 big mistakes. Ok without 1 of her 2 big mistakes she wins silver, without both she wins gold, but that is only because of Arakawa and Cohen making mistakes that day. The overall quality of her performance and elements was the worst it has been in 2 years. Her jumps she landed cleanly were nothing like they usually are, high on toepick on landings, leaning, laboured launching them, no flow out. Normaly she would outscore somebody by Cohen alot in GOE on jumps yet her GOE total on the jumps she did cleanly was only +0.57 I think and that is the same as Cohen had if you dont count her triple-triple sequence as a clean jump. That shows how much her jumps were off. Her spins were much below her best too, her GOE on spins were lower then usual, and I think some of her levels might have been too then she had in other performances. Her last footwork sequence was showing her being tired and not done properly at all, it was only graded a level 2 so she lost points in value, and the GOE was lower then it would usual for her too. Then PCS scores, her PCS would have been lower since she did not have her usual energy or fire, she did not sell the program or interpret the music as well since she was nervous, so of course her PCS would be lower then both her usual, and with a subpar performance level on her own part lower then beautiful skaters like Arakawa and Cohen.


    -Suguri is a second tier skater. I dont mean that as an insult since she is still an extremely good and accomplished skater. However she is a big level behind the other big girls-Slutskaya, Cohen, Kwan, young hotshots, etc...to begin with and always has been. That means she has no chance to beat the big guns when they hit their programs, and if they make big mistakes she only has a shot to beat them if she hits her own programs not certain she will even in thise case though. There is no part of her skating you say is amazing-good jumps, good spins, good musicality, good polish, good basic skating, nothing special though, just everything good kind of. You look at her competitive history and you will see what I mean, the judges agree on that too. She also was not totally clean in Turin, she doubled a jump, and had 1 or 2 other landings that may not have been clean. She also did not have the spin levels high enough, her spins looked like they were harder at Worlds. In the long at Worlds she scored 5 points higher with just as much mistake total so I assume she upgraded some of her non-jump elements for Worlds, atleast in the long program. Well she should have done this before Turin in both short and long, a second tier skater needs to squeeze every point they get to take on the bigger guns.

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    I think most people here thought she did deserve the Silver. You must have this mixed up with another board.

    It was the Worlds which many thought Sokolova should have been third. BTW, I presume you are a big fan, do you have any inside information that Sasha is training for the US Nationals?

    Joe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    I think most people here thought she did deserve the Silver. You must have this mixed up with another board.

    It was the Worlds which many thought Sokolova should have been third. BTW, I presume you are a big fan, do you have any inside information that Sasha is training for the US Nationals?

    Joe
    That's also my thought! She deserved the silver in Torino, but not the bronze in Calgary!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    BTW, I presume you are a big fan, do you have any inside information that Sasha is training for the US Nationals?

    Joe
    I do, kind of.

    A friend of mine who skates at Aliso has seen Sasha around quite a bit, training seriously--not just messing around. So it could be for Nationals, it could be for the cheesefest in DEcember, but she's still going to the rink on a regular basis post-Campbells.

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    Thanks for that info Lanie.

    And I agree, she did. I don't like to think it from my heart, and I maybe one of the ones temperboy28 is referring to having said such a thing - comment anyway. All the discussion around the topic has helped me come to terms with that. I don't like to "waffle" but I have to, but I still would place Fumie 3rd. Ira seamed to have a "Johnny face" on for the LP - for what ever reason Illness etc, nothing like the Ira of the 05 season. As for you stance on Fumie, to each their own, and I can't argue with that either. I do think she has something that none of the ladies have, but there seems to only be few that feel the same.

    She'll be "my main feature" for a long time to come I still think JR's LP was a fluke at SCanada, well see. ?? Maybe she is stepping up the pace too - and Fumie either needs to find something new to add for more of a guarantee of placement - Kinda like Phil Mickelson in golf.

    But I don't really think 2nd tier is the right example. That I would barely even say about Kiira or Taylor. Fumie is in the top 20 in the world no doubt, under the top 20 is where I would start using a term like that but it is just a semantics issue and I get the drift of the comment and agree.
    Last edited by SeaniBu; 11-06-2006 at 09:19 PM.

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    Fumie does not have a 'wow factor' like some of the other lady skaters, but she is hardly second tier. She's made the World podium 3 times and that's more than a lot of ladies can say.

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    MY TVC 1 5 SeaniBu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riverflows View Post
    Fumie does not have a 'wow factor' like some of the other lady skaters, but she is hardly second tier. She's made the World podium 3 times and that's more than a lot of ladies can say.
    More then particularly any Japanese lady AAMOF.

    I guess this is just a semantics differentiation in perception, for me she has the "wow factor" more then any other current lady. But yes, second tier is not really "proper." Yet understood.
    Last edited by SeaniBu; 11-06-2006 at 10:17 PM.

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    Back to Sasha. Thanks Lanie. I'm not in Sasha's head so I can't say for sure that the daily practice is for Marshalls and Nats. I'm sure she will be at Marshalls because of contract and big bucks a la Michelle. I'd like to see her skate the Marshalls but I'm not sure about Nats. Somehow there was more news coming out of the Cohen camp which has disappeared since Worlds and just a little since Campbells. the cinema has taken over but how much?
    Does she still do her thing with the Journal?

    Joe

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    Sasha definitely deserved Silver, the real question is if Fumie deserved Bronze over Slutskaya. I'd have to say yes. Fumie's PCS scores should have been higher, especially in the short program.

    EDIT: My typing is whacky sometimes.
    Last edited by Zuranthium; 11-06-2006 at 10:43 PM.

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Does she still do her thing with the Journal?
    Last journal entry was October 12, before Campbell's.

    http://www.sashacohen.com/journal.shtml

    "Do you like the length of my hair?"

    I hope Sasha does decide to do Nationals. Even if she is not at her competitive peak in January, she could still give Kimmie all she could handle.
    Maybe if she entered just as a lark and didn't really care, her nerves wouldn't get the best of her and she'd do fine.
    .

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    MY TVC 1 5 SeaniBu's Avatar
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    Thanks Math, I have them (still sweet though) and that is one of the best ever outfits . For that I will get something for you.


    BOT, even though Fumie was brought into the original topic, who knows of Sasha's latest plan. Like Joe was asking about her journal? is she sticking to the 2 year plan, or ??? Come on Lanie I at you feet for that tid bit.

    BTW, I thought she - Sasha - was at SkateWorld? My dreams may play jokes on me though
    Last edited by SeaniBu; 11-06-2006 at 10:36 PM.

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    MY TVC 1 5 SeaniBu's Avatar
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    Fumie wallpaper -
    http://www.zshare.net/image/bmulan-f...rds-1-jpg.html

    http://www.zshare.net/image/bdmulan-...ncess-jpg.html

    Check back for clip of Yuka (for MM) and repost of Sasha changes society JFF.
    Sasha-
    http://www.filefactory.com/file/f19999/

    For MM of Yuka - still such a wonderful smile
    http://www.filefactory.com/file/1aec4e/
    Last edited by SeaniBu; 11-06-2006 at 11:37 PM.

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    I thought Sasha's total score was a total gift. Her skating skill scores were much too high to begin with, she has nowhere near the skating skills of Arakawa, Suguri, or Slutskaya, even if her other PCS are good aside from her mistakes. Her mistakes which greatly disrupted the flow of the program should have docked her overall PCS scores more then they did. Her final footwork sequence was much overscored, it was good but nothing amazing and did not warrant almost 2 full points in GOE scores. She was just overscored in many ways IMHO and did not deserve the silver. Some think she deserved the silver, that is fine, but I will never have that opinion unless somebody says something to convince me. While I do appreciate some of the great qualities of her skating I have always found her a judges pet anyway, so her getting what I considered a gift did not surprise me, but again just my opinion. I would have had it Suguri-silver, Slutskaya or Cohen-bronze, Slutskaya or Cohen-4th. Irina was also a bit overscored, and Suguri was underscored.

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    Quote Originally Posted by riverflows View Post
    Fumie does not have a 'wow factor' like some of the other lady skaters, but she is hardly second tier. She's made the World podium 3 times and that's more than a lot of ladies can say.

    Well somebody like Kira Ivanova of Russia has an Olympic bronze and a World silver, which is probably about on par with a World silver at post-Olympic Worlds, a World bronze at post-Olympic Worlds, and 1 other World bronze. Claudia Leistner of Germany is a skater with 2 World silvers. Meno/Sand a U.S pair team won 2 World bronzes, and a World silver at a post-Olympic Worlds. I think these are examples of skaters that most refer to as second tier skaters as well so I can see Suguri referred to as that. Second tier is not an insult, you must be extremely good to be one of the best of the second tier group.

    2 of Suguri's 3 World medals, including her highest medal-the silver last year, are at post-Olympic Worlds. I believe post-Olympic Worlds could be put into a seperate category from the other 3 Worlds in a given quadrennail as there are almost always absences, atleast post-88 Olympics.

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