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Thread: "Impossible" Jumps

  1. #1
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    "Impossible" Jumps

    Here list all Jumps/ Jump Combinations that you'd like to see performed which are impossible. I'll start with mine.

    -Quadruple Axel
    -Quad-Quad combo
    -triple lutz-triple flip
    -triple axel-halfloop-triple axel
    -a quintuple jump
    -triple lutz-halfloop-triple flip

    Well, I think that the quadruple axel will definately within the next 20 years be tried somewhere because of this point system, i am a skater as well and my goal is to be the first to land it in competition and in combination. I am going to try and qualify for the games in '14 or in '18 and in one of those Free Skates if I make it there i'm going to attempt two quadruple axels.

    The triple lutz-triple flip is something that I don't think has ever been done because of the fact that to do them in combination, you have to do the second jump in the opposite direction, and I don' t know one skater that can jump in both directions.

    Quints i'm sure will be seen within the next 20 years as well.

  2. #2
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    I love the triple Lutz - opposite foot triple flip!

    Which do you think will come first, a quint toe or a quint Salchow?

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    MY TVC 1 5 SeaniBu's Avatar
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    I do not believe the quintuple will ever be made unless they have ramps involved. JMO Well maybe the toe if they have bionic knees.
    Last edited by SeaniBu; 11-07-2006 at 11:07 PM.

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    They'd have to put rebound in the ice, too!

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    Gadfly and Bon Vivant Mafke's Avatar
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    Generally speaking, adding more revolutions is a big bore for me (if I could I'd ban quads on reasons of general health and/or aesthetics - it's usually an ugly approach into an ugly jump landed in an ugly manner, if it fails it tends to drain the life out of a program).

    I'd love to see some seldom used jumps and longer sequences (that are probably more challenging than grinding out another revolution). For example:

    double one-foot axel- triple salchow - double loop - double toe loop

    double inside axel - double toe

    triple flip - double half-loop(?) triple salchow

    axel into single axel into double axel into single axel into axel

    toe loop - double toe - triple toe - double toe - toe loop

    double reverse walley - double toe

    double axel - half loop - double salchow - double loop - double toe - half loop - double flip


    And finally:

    double loop (or double toe) into a double lutz

    I think this is theoretically almost possible in terms of edges but _extremely_ unlikely in terms of physics

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    thread!!!

    I think that some are really impossible to do. It is fantaphysics, but I would like to see:

    -double (or triple half loop)
    -double (or triple walley)
    -double (or triple inside axel)
    -double (or triple toeless lutz)
    -one foot axel into a triple flip
    -a triple flip landed on the opposite foot into a triple flip
    -a double/triple/quad combo
    -a cantilever into a triple jump
    -hydroblading into a triple jump
    -a triple jump into a spin
    -a triple jump with both hands in the air (a Tano triple with both hands)
    -a double split jump
    -a delayed triple jump
    -a sit triple jump
    -a tuck triple jump

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafke View Post

    I'd love to see some seldom used jumps and longer sequences (that are probably more challenging than grinding out another revolution).
    I completely agree with you! Instead of doing all this quads it will be more interesting to do multijump combos and sequences. Unfortunately the ISU doesn't allow this.

    I'd like to see a

    -triple loop, double loop, half loop, double flip, half loop, double sal, double toe
    -triple axel, hops, double axel, hops, delayed axel, hops, one foot axel

  8. #8
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gio View Post
    thread!!!

    -a cantilever into a triple jump
    Look no further than Ilia Klimkin - he does a cantalever down the diagonal of the rink into a triple jump (i forget which).

    Quote Originally Posted by gio View Post
    -hydroblading into a triple jump
    I thought Tim Goebel did this in his Olympic Free skate at SLC - a hydroblade into a triple loop.

    Quote Originally Posted by gio View Post
    -a triple jump into a spin
    I'm pretty sure this is do-able but might look too much like a mistake on a triple jump to warrant doing it. drills for getting double and triple jumps often involve landing the jump you can and then backspinning on teh landing and checking out. Also spinning jumping up for a double or triple and landing and spinning. Often for salchows and loops.

    Ant

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    I think Matt Savoie also did a hydroblade into a triple.

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Landing a sommersault on one foot. I only know one skater that can do it and it's a Lady!

    If they considered the sommersault too acrobatic, they should check out some of those skating moves which come directly from acrobatics and vaudeville.

    Joe

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    Quote Originally Posted by icesk8erdude4e View Post

    The triple lutz-triple flip is something that I don't think has ever been done because of the fact that to do them in combination, you have to do the second jump in the opposite direction, and I don' t know one skater that can jump in both directions.

    Rohene Ward has the reverse 2x (and has put it into his programs on occasion), and has practiced reverse triples up through the lutz.

    Also his SP last year had a cantilever into a 3z.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Landing a sommersault on one foot. I only know one skater that can do it and it's a Lady!

    If they considered the sommersault too acrobatic, they should check out some of those skating moves which come directly from acrobatics and vaudeville.
    It has nothing to do with it being too acrobatic and everything to do with the fact that the take-off doesn't use skating skills.

    (Also, aside from Bonaly, haven't Ryan Bradley and Stacey Pensgen landed their somersaults on 1 foot?)

  13. #13
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElFuego View Post
    Rohene Ward has the reverse 2x (and has put it into his programs on occasion), and has practiced reverse triples up through the lutz.

    Also his SP last year had a cantilever into a 3z.
    I think last season he was attempting a reverse double axel/normal rotation 3 sal sequence.

    Here is a practice clip of it:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxMFJuZgc1w

    He does a reverse double axel/reverse half loop/side hop to the left/normal triple salchow.

    Saldy COP doesn't note the difficulty of doing a jump in the opposite direction.

    Ant

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    thanks for the clip - i rohene!!

    I like these jump combinations - sequences that you all are talking about way more than the idea of more rotations. I used to LOVE watching quads, but i agree with the poster who said, in addition to injuries, the quad saps too much out of program when it fails and often has ugly set-up. So, i guess now I really appreciate when a quad is well executed and admire that skater (like, say, Lambiel and others) but also really don't argue that it is THE TEST for a male skater (like I used to) anymore (or shouldn't be I guess is what I mean).

    That said, I'm still of two minds or confused about he scoring of this - joubert and others have complained the quad doesn't get enough credit, and since, to do it well without disrupting the pogram is so hard, do people here think it should be worth more? If it is, are you worried we'll see more bad quads and injuries just hoping to get more points?

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    Quote Originally Posted by icesk8erdude4e View Post
    -triple lutz-halfloop-triple flip
    This has been done. By Evgeny Plyushenko at NHK one year, I think 1998 or 99.

    -triple axel-halfloop-triple axel
    Why a half loop? That would put the skater on a back inside edge (of the left foot for a counterclockwise jumper). Then they'd probably have to take a couple of steps to get onto the forward outside edge, in ways that would dilute the effect of the sequence. Might as well just do a tap-toe or mazurka in between. (Common with single axels at low levels, I think Surya Bonaly and Jessica Mills used to do this with doubles.)

    Or after the half loop, turn a back inside three onto the forward outside takeoff edge. That would be very impressive, but I really doubt it would work with a triple axel. Let's see it with single or double first.

    We have seen triple axel-half loop-triple salchow and -triple flip, if that's what you're thinking of, from Yagudin and Plyushenko respectively.

    The triple lutz-triple flip is something that I don't think has ever been done because of the fact that to do them in combination, you have to do the second jump in the opposite direction, and I don' t know one skater that can jump in both directions.
    You mean triple flip-triple lutz? The problem with putting a flip at the end of the combination is not that you need to reverse direction, but that you need to get onto the back inside edge. So a half loop in between would do it (and has, see above), or intentionally landing the lutz on the "wrong" foot (not likely with a triple), or changing direction with a change of edge to (which, like the half loop, would make it not a true combination).

    Anyway, just as toe loops and loops are the jumps that can be put at the end of normal back outside landings for true combinations, and salchows and flips at the end of jumps with back inside landings (one-foot axel, one-foot double salchow, half loop), the obvious second jump in a combination that rotates both directions would be a lutz. Any jump landed on a back outside edge as normal, followed by a lutz in the opposite direction. The most I would expect to see at this point even at the highest levels would be a double jump in the bad direction and a triple in the good direction. E.g., we have already seen reverse walley into normal triple lutz. So maybe start with reverse double toe into triple lutz. Or triple anything into reverse double lutz.

    Again, not likely with triple-triple combinations. I've seen it done with singles at low levels, and there are a few skaters who *can* do some triples in both directions but not consistently enough to put them in combination (e.g., Rohene Ward).

    What I'd like to see is the code of points add an automatic +1 or +2 to the GOE for a combination or sequence with double or higher jumps in each direction, or a bonus to the base value of the jump performed in the opposite direction or to the value of the combo/sequence as a whole. It would be harder to reward a solo jump done in the skater's bad direction because there wouldn't be any immediate cues within the jump itself that it's an "opposite direction" jump for that skater; it would look just like a normal jump by a skater who jumps the other way. But if the tech specialists can keep track of each skater's normal jump direction and identify the exceptions, then add a bonus to base value or GOE for those too.

    Some of gio's suggestions seem like fun ideas. Just need to make sure the system would reward them. Putting walleys and inside axels, at least as doubles, into the scale of values (maybe singles too but specifying that singles of those jumps don't block jump boxes) would encourage people to master the doubles. And someday maybe eventually someone could do a triple. I think the doubles of those jumps need to be worth more than double axels, possibly more than the easier triples.

    And I'm still waiting for double one-foot axel into triple salchow.
    Last edited by gkelly; 11-08-2006 at 12:07 PM.

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