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Thread: Vocal music

  1. #1
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    Vocal music

    Why ISU doesn't allow vocal music? Is it because it can distract from the program?
    Are you for or against this rule?
    Last edited by gio; 11-12-2006 at 05:36 PM. Reason: spelling (as always)

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    In my heart, I'm actually Canadian....
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    I think that since they opened up the "vocals option" for Dance, they should open it up for all. Certainly it would open up a LOT more options for music, and would cut down on the chances of us having to sit through "Carmen" or other pieces of music in the "Oh Please NOT THAT Again" vein for the 3,224th time. And in the hands of the right skater, I think we could see some tremendous stuff. For example, I think that 80s New Wave is a tremendously untapped vein; there's a lot of things in that genre that would make terrific programs in the hands of the right skater and choregrapher.

    What I find silly about vocals only being used in Dance is that -- in THEORY, anyway, tho Torvill & Dean pretty much blew this out the window -- Dance is supposed to be related to its ballroom origins. I realize that there are vocals in some actual ballroom music, but Dance couples are able to go out there now in the free dance and use just about ANYTHING whether you can actually dance to it or not (by the way, how ironic is it that you can't actually DANCE to "Dancing Queen"??) whereas singles and pairs, which for the most part don't have the same origins (tho Pairs did more or less originate as Dance), don't have that option.

    Wouldn't it be wonderful to see what skatings "bad boys" (Johnny Weir, Ryan Bradley) would select for a free program given the vocal option? OK, maybe wonderful would not necessarily be the correct word choice....

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    Matt Savoie~Soul Skater CzarinaAnya's Avatar
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    Fumie Suguri had some sort of vocalizing in her music.

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    I like pie. Tonichelle's Avatar
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    I like the distinction... makes it more fun for exhibitions

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    Gadfly and Bon Vivant Mafke's Avatar
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    Eye H8 vocal music for competition.

    Unless the skater is really good, it shifts focus from the skater to the singer and makes the skating look like an accompaniment to the vocal soundtrack.

    Not nearly so many skaters can pull it off as think they can. I'd dump it entirely, even for exhibitions.

    And if you don't like hearing 18 million versions of Carmen, is 18 million versions of boy band de jour or other vapid pop phenonmena that skaters like listening to going to be any better? Elite skaters are mostly very young which usually means 'not very developed taste'.

    If that doesn't scare you, three words from a couple of years ago: I will survive .... brrrrrr

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    Vocal music is allowed in singles and pairs, but words aren't, although I believe there may be an exception for "dead" languages like Latin.

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    In my heart, I'm actually Canadian....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafke View Post

    And if you don't like hearing 18 million versions of Carmen, is 18 million versions of boy band de jour or other vapid pop phenonmena that skaters like listening to going to be any better? Elite skaters are mostly very young which usually means 'not very developed taste'.

    If that doesn't scare you, three words from a couple of years ago: I will survive .... brrrrrr
    Well, that's a point but then again these "young elite skaters" are HARDLY listening to the likes of "Carmen" on their own, so it's not like they're choosing their own music a lot of the time anyway.

    As far as "I Will Survive" -- I could have handled it if they'd used the Gloria Gaynor version (as the Hugentoblers of Switzerland did the same season); whatever cheesy version Babs & Maurizio pulled out of some 5th-rate disco is another matter entirely.

    Actually, the problem I have had with pop music in free dances is usually TOO MANY MUSIC EDITS. They go along fine, and then suddenly CHOP! on to the next cut then they just get into that and then CHOP! That's the problem I had with Shae & Vic's Michael Jackson number; I actually liked Navka & Kostamorov's (same season) better because their music wasn't so chopped up.

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    Gotta Have Music iluvtodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hockeyfan228 View Post
    Vocal music is allowed in singles and pairs, but words aren't, although I believe there may be an exception for "dead" languages like Latin.
    I think Todd had this situation back in 2001 when he did his "Carmina Burana/Mythodea" program for the first time at Trophee Lalique. He actually skated to a small part of "O Fortuna." The rest of his SP was to Vangelis' "Mythodea."

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    MY TVC 1 5 SeaniBu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hockeyfan228 View Post
    Vocal music is allowed in singles and pairs, but words aren't, although I believe there may be an exception for "dead" languages like Latin.
    I believe that is 100%, Joesitz and I were talking about this very thing a while ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    I like the distinction... makes it more fun for exhibitions
    You're right! I thought also of this! The competition is a serious moment and than there is the "have fun" moment with the exibitions.

    Tonichelle, I really like you signature! It's beautiful!
    How did you do it?

  11. #11
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    If you take the vocal "At Last" was it not done with passion? Showing passion is a cultural thing. "Love" is a Canadian passion.

    Joe

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    Quote Originally Posted by hockeyfan228 View Post
    Vocal music is allowed in singles and pairs, but words aren't, although I believe there may be an exception for "dead" languages like Latin.
    Splitting hairs -- vocal music (the singing of words) is not allowed. Vocalizing (the singing of sounds) is allowed. There is no exception for dead languages, though if the words are garbled and the judges don't understand the words, they seem to let a skater slide on this rule.

    USFSA rule 3502 A. says "For singles and pairs short program and free skate, vocal music with lyrics is not permitted."

    When Todd first did Carmina Burana the words were too distinct and he was made to go back and adjust the music so the words were less clear. There was one season where words were allowed in singles and pairs in the 90s, but I am too lazy to go look it up. Also a few ISU Congresses back, there was a proposal to allow opera with lyrics, but that got turned down. Also too lazy to go back and look that up.

    There are ways to take a recording and partially remove and muffle the words so they are no longer understandable that some skaters have used to get around the no singing rule.
    Last edited by gsrossano; 11-13-2006 at 06:34 PM.

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    MY TVC 1 5 SeaniBu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsrossano View Post
    judges don't understand the words
    Isn't that the case with Latin?

    Sorry, on the serious side I am remembering a singles man (maybe Buttle???? guys I just have a harder time remembering even if I admire them) skating to music that I recall from the movie Excaliber and can not remember the name of the piece. But quite a bit of Latin Lyrics. But the vocals are sung in the same notes as the music. I see the rule, but not so sure that is not "bent" in specific cases. But as a general "rule of thumb."

    Fumie's routine to Toca Orilla was "mutilated" - IMO - to eliminate the lyrics entirely where as they were very much in the same characteristic of following the notes of the instruments, but that was in Spanish, which could have made all the difference.

    Personally they could "lighten up" on this rule a little, but not where it means we will be listening to the Black Eyed Peas, but in cases like Toca Orilla, I don't see the problem.

  14. #14
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    That's kind of funny if you think about it. If you sing the words distinctly, that's a no-no, but if you mush them up, that's OK.

    So most of rap music would be legal because you can't understand what they are saying (thank goodness).

    You could also use Mairzi Dotes, or (Oscar nominee) Bibbidi-bobbidi-boo.
    Last edited by Mathman; 11-13-2006 at 09:07 PM.

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