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Thread: Kimmie's and YuNa's Presentation

  1. #1
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Kimmie's and YuNa's Presentation

    I watched the programs of the two on Youtube and began to see some diffeences.

    Please Note: This thread has nothing to do with Triples or how high the spirals are

    Kimmie's SP was very lyrical and much improved over Skate America. It seemed to me that she is beginning to feel the music Her stroking is second to none and now her arms are also flowing naturally.

    YuNa's SP included the usual Spanish poses and arms but to me, she looked uncomfortable with the Spanish-like style. She is more inclined to be lyrical, and I do not see her as being very versatile at the moment.

    Kimmie's LP was quite amazing for me since I did not expect her to be capable of combining the lyrical and the up-tempo in the same program and make it look good. I believe she is now collaborating with Lori Nichol and not just taking directions. Her arms are hers and not Lori's.

    YuNa's LP lacked any sort of up-beat tempo but carried a background of lyrical music throughout. She did it nicely and followed the directions of her choreographer as to how to use her arms. I believe once she becomes aware of all sorts of tempos in music, she will be a real force in figure skating.

    Joe

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    I think this is a very subjective topic, and I do agree with you on some points. I found both skaters are still feeling their way through their programs, and by the mid-season, we should see better performances. I think both ladies got their money worth from their choregraphers. It will be very interesting come Worlds to see if they can skate their programs to the full potential.

    The only Ladies' program that really knocked my socks off so far this season was Mao's SA SP.

    As for arm movements-I think both Yu-Na and Kimmie have long arms. I find Yu-Na to be more natural in her movements, while Kimmie is working very hard to soften them up-her arms hyperextend, so they look stiff. Also, I don't like the way Kimmie holds her back while stroking, I find it VERY distracting. I do see her basic skating skills, edges and speed are very solid and I think that is fabulous! But I wish she wouldn't drop ber back.

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    I think Yu-Na uses her upper body exquisitely. It is her knees and feet that bother me somewhat. She needs to work on stretch, and keeping her knees straight and toes pointed. In general, this would help her spiral and spin positions (speed of spins seem fine). Attention to these details would help refine her otherwise lovely presentation. She really seems to feel the music, to interpret the music, have a passion for it. As Peggy says she really "draws you in."

    On the other hand, Kimmie still seems to be on the surface in terms of really feeling and interpreting the music. Part of this could be what I consider to be a less than compelling music selection for the LP. The ersatz Latin themes just don't really come alive for me, and really even just seem to peter out at the end-- so that the close of her program seems almost anti-climatic. And yes, the way she bends at the waste while stroking is distracting. You can't teach grace, or star quality or musical expression ... that ability to fill a phrase of music with your body. So I feel she will need to continue to push herself technically because she will never be known as one of the truly "artistic" skaters. But, with experience and good choreographers, she can improve. She certainly seems to have the drive and determination to do so.

    Oh, my new pet peeve is the ubiquitous (so called) I-spin that so many of the ladies are now using to close their programs. Sasha made them famous but I find the position...well, ugly.

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    Basic skating skills still affects each skater's presentation. YuNa seems having no major weakness in stroking, spins, and jumps while Kimmie's backward crossover, forward stroking, and jump rotation need some work. YuNa needs to work on her facial expression.

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    I just feel differntly IMO Yu-Na did the best "spanish" not only in ladies, but of all deciplines. I was amazed how a Korean girl and at that age could mangage to get that attitude and posture so right. Kimmie is improving but IMO she's not at the same level as Yu-Na is. Just my 2 cents.

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    I didn't see any real improvements in either of their SPs. Kimmie's upper-body is too stiff and mechanical for me, personally, to be able to sit back and enjoy. Yu-Na's SP didn't improve too much from SC, but then again, it didn't exactly need a whole lot anyway. For this competition, maybe it was the camera angle, but she had much more confidence and character here than previously before.

    I will say, though, that even though she fell, Kimmie's LP was much, much better than say, last season (since I don't quite remember her from Campbell's or SA). I was pleasently surprised on the straightline fw. But Yu-Na Kim is more suited for her lyrical 'The Lark Ascending' than Kimmie is for her Latin 'Galicie Flamenco'.

    If we were comparing the technical side, they're about even (except Yu-Na is currently more reliable). If we were comparing the artistic side, Kimmie doesn't come close. My $0.02.

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    That's it folks! Keep the focus on Kimmie and Yu-Na. Maybe Emily will slide through and win big. :-)

    ****Keeping the Hughes faith****

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fossi View Post
    That's it folks! Keep the focus on Kimmie and Yu-Na. Maybe Emily will slide through and win big. :-)

    ****Keeping the Hughes faith****
    Ah, that's not gonna happen.

    Also, you forgot Mao Asada...

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    Quote Originally Posted by jesslily View Post
    Basic skating skills still affects each skater's presentation. YuNa seems having no major weakness in stroking, spins, and jumps while Kimmie's backward crossover, forward stroking, and jump rotation need some work. YuNa needs to work on her facial expression.
    No personal offense against this opinion, but I've often seen on FS boards (including here) posts about the lack of facial expression of oriental skaters. But unlike some western countries where we are taught to smile "CHEESE" in front of a camera lens even before learning to walk, I think it is quite natural that skaters from other cultures might not have such enthusiasm oozing out all over their faces. And it can also be argued how much expression is enough expression, because as an Asian American I myself prefer Shizuka Arakawa's cool style to Emily Hughes' "smile even when your butt is on the ice" type. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

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    Down With It
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    hmm, I never thought about it from that perspective. I guess that (culture) has a lot to do with it. On that topic, what do Koreans think of her (YuNa)?

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    (i really like the tone of this thread)

    I personally admire Yu-na's smooth transitions and artistic presentation over Kimmie's. But I definitely think that Yu-na's lack of expression DOES affect her ability to connect with the viewer. I doubt that it has to do with the fact that she is Asian however, since that was not a problem in Michelle Kwan's case.

    It's interesting that you chose to compare Kimmie and Yuna. I've always considered them as having two very different styles. But now I can see some similarities.

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    Michelle is of Asian descent but raised in America and I would say culture wise she is an American. Whereas Yu-Na's cultrure is Korean. I like both Kimmie and Yu-Na very talented young ladies. I think Kimmie has more command of the ice than Yu-Na.

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Interesting comments but it was not about who has the best arms or the best anything.

    It was about whether or not the skaters are showing something of themelves or are they just doing what the choreographer is telling them to do?

    I think skatewise, YuNa has more tricks than Kimmie and a much bigger fan base, but her performances are exactly what the choreograher told her to do. I do not see anything that shows me YuNa's personality. I am not putting her down. This is my corrective criticism, and like Miki, she will soon develop that personality on the ice. It just isn't there yet.

    Kimmie with her straight back is loosening up. There is so much improvement since Worlds and Skate America. She is definitely taking the choreographer's work and injecting her interpretation into it. It's not totally there yet, but it is showing signs that we will see Kimmie's maturity soon.

    For those of you who have seen six or seven Swan Lakes on the stage, the choreography is always the same, the arms and flow, the lifts, the pirouettes are all the same. BUT think about why you prefer one ballerina over the other. That's what I am talking about.

    Joe

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    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Interesting comments but it was not about who has the best arms or the best anything.

    It was about whether or not the skaters are showing something of themelves or are they just doing what the choreographer is telling them to do?

    I think skatewise, YuNa has more tricks than Kimmie and a much bigger fan base, but her performances are exactly what the choreograher told her to do. I do not see anything that shows me YuNa's personality. I am not putting her down. This is my corrective criticism, and like Miki, she will soon develop that personality on the ice. It just isn't there yet.

    Kimmie with her straight back is loosening up. There is so much improvement since Worlds and Skate America. She is definitely taking the choreographer's work and injecting her interpretation into it. It's not totally there yet, but it is showing signs that we will see Kimmie's maturity soon.

    For those of you who have seen six or seven Swan Lakes on the stage, the choreography is always the same, the arms and flow, the lifts, the pirouettes are all the same. BUT think about why you prefer one ballerina over the other. That's what I am talking about.

    Joe
    But do you need to know the skater in order to know their personality in order to assess if it come through in their skating? To show somethign of themselves is difficult to guage. Could it be that north americans see their own skaters showing some of themselves in perofrmances because you get the fluff pieces and the interviews and you speak the same language so you can tell tone of voice etc etc and start to get a feel for the skater is or might be like and then you can spot it in performances, whereas with Yu Na you might not be able to tell very much about her, your own cultural differences and language barriers might misinterpret her personality or you might just not be able to spot her showing herself in her performance?

    It is just a question since i don't know what fluff pieces might ahve been done on Yu Na.

    Ant

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    But do you need to know the skater in order to know their personality in order to assess if it come through in their skating? To show somethign of themselves is difficult to guage. Could it be that north americans see their own skaters showing some of themselves in perofrmances because you get the fluff pieces and the interviews and you speak the same language so you can tell tone of voice etc etc and start to get a feel for the skater is or might be like and then you can spot it in performances, whereas with Yu Na you might not be able to tell very much about her, your own cultural differences and language barriers might misinterpret her personality or you might just not be able to spot her showing herself in her performance?

    It is just a question since i don't know what fluff pieces might ahve been done on Yu Na.

    Ant
    Ordinarily I would say I'm not interested in any female skater until she is at least 18y,o, and has lived a little. But in Sasha's case, her personality came out from day one!! Midori Ito showed personality at a young age. but these are exceptions to my take on young female skaters. It doesn't mean I like the personality but it gives me more of the understanding I get from a skater.

    In the Men. If all the quads are met, what is it about Yagudin that makes you prefer him to Plushenko? - or vise versa? At that time would you have preferred Joubert even with the quads? Many fans go for wow tricks, others for nationality. It's all soooo subjective.

    I do not favor either Kimmie or YuNa. I am waiting for them both to show me who they are while skating.

    Joe

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