Kimmie's and YuNa's Presentation

Joesitz (RIP) · Nov 28, 2006

I watched the programs of the two on Youtube and began to see some diffeences.

Please Note: This thread has nothing to do with Triples or how high the spirals are

Kimmie's SP was very lyrical and much improved over Skate America. It seemed to me that she is beginning to feel the music Her stroking is second to none and now her arms are also flowing naturally.

YuNa's SP included the usual Spanish poses and arms but to me, she looked uncomfortable with the Spanish-like style. She is more inclined to be lyrical, and I do not see her as being very versatile at the moment.

Kimmie's LP was quite amazing for me since I did not expect her to be capable of combining the lyrical and the up-tempo in the same program and make it look good. I believe she is now collaborating with Lori Nichol and not just taking directions. Her arms are hers and not Lori's.

YuNa's LP lacked any sort of up-beat tempo but carried a background of lyrical music throughout. She did it nicely and followed the directions of her choreographer as to how to use her arms. I believe once she becomes aware of all sorts of tempos in music, she will be a real force in figure skating.

Joe

MKFSfan · Nov 28, 2006

I think this is a very subjective topic, and I do agree with you on some points. I found both skaters are still feeling their way through their programs, and by the mid-season, we should see better performances. I think both ladies got their money worth from their choregraphers. It will be very interesting come Worlds to see if they can skate their programs to the full potential. :thumbsup:

The only Ladies' program that really knocked my socks off so far this season was Mao's SA SP.

As for arm movements-I think both Yu-Na and Kimmie have long arms. I find Yu-Na to be more natural in her movements, while Kimmie is working very hard to soften them up-her arms hyperextend, so they look stiff. Also, I don't like the way Kimmie holds her back while stroking, I find it VERY distracting. I do see her basic skating skills, edges and speed are very solid and I think that is fabulous! But I wish she wouldn't drop ber back.

waxel · Nov 28, 2006

I think Yu-Na uses her upper body exquisitely. It is her knees and feet that bother me somewhat. She needs to work on stretch, and keeping her knees straight and toes pointed. In general, this would help her spiral and spin positions (speed of spins seem fine). Attention to these details would help refine her otherwise lovely presentation. She really seems to feel the music, to interpret the music, have a passion for it. As Peggy says she really "draws you in."

On the other hand, Kimmie still seems to be on the surface in terms of really feeling and interpreting the music. Part of this could be what I consider to be a less than compelling music selection for the LP. The ersatz Latin themes just don't really come alive for me, and really even just seem to peter out at the end-- so that the close of her program seems almost anti-climatic. And yes, the way she bends at the waste while stroking is distracting. You can't teach grace, or star quality or musical expression ... that ability to fill a phrase of music with your body. So I feel she will need to continue to push herself technically because she will never be known as one of the truly "artistic" skaters. But, with experience and good choreographers, she can improve. She certainly seems to have the drive and determination to do so.

Oh, my new pet peeve is the ubiquitous (so called) I-spin that so many of the ladies are now using to close their programs. Sasha made them famous but I find the position...well, ugly.

jesslily · Nov 28, 2006

Basic skating skills still affects each skater's presentation. YuNa seems having no major weakness in stroking, spins, and jumps while Kimmie's backward crossover, forward stroking, and jump rotation need some work. YuNa needs to work on her facial expression.

hongligl · Nov 28, 2006

I just feel differntly IMO Yu-Na did the best "spanish" not only in ladies, but of all deciplines. I was amazed how a Korean girl and at that age could mangage to get that attitude and posture so right. Kimmie is improving but IMO she's not at the same level as Yu-Na is. Just my 2 cents.

riverflows · Nov 28, 2006

I didn't see any real improvements in either of their SPs. Kimmie's upper-body is too stiff and mechanical for me, personally, to be able to sit back and enjoy. Yu-Na's SP didn't improve too much from SC, but then again, it didn't exactly need a whole lot anyway. For this competition, maybe it was the camera angle, but she had much more confidence and character here than previously before.

I will say, though, that even though she fell, Kimmie's LP was much, much better than say, last season (since I don't quite remember her from Campbell's or SA). I was pleasently surprised on the straightline fw. But Yu-Na Kim is more suited for her lyrical 'The Lark Ascending' than Kimmie is for her Latin 'Galicie Flamenco'.

If we were comparing the technical side, they're about even (except Yu-Na is currently more reliable). If we were comparing the artistic side, Kimmie doesn't come close. My $0.02.

Fossi · Nov 28, 2006

That's it folks! Keep the focus on Kimmie and Yu-Na. Maybe Emily will slide through and win big.

****Keeping the Hughes faith****

R.D. · Nov 28, 2006

Fossi said:
That's it folks! Keep the focus on Kimmie and Yu-Na. Maybe Emily will slide through and win big.

****Keeping the Hughes faith****

Ah, that's not gonna happen.

Also, you forgot Mao Asada...

Skye · Nov 28, 2006

jesslily said:
Basic skating skills still affects each skater's presentation. YuNa seems having no major weakness in stroking, spins, and jumps while Kimmie's backward crossover, forward stroking, and jump rotation need some work. YuNa needs to work on her facial expression.

No personal offense against this opinion, but I've often seen on FS boards (including here) posts about the lack of facial expression of oriental skaters. But unlike some western countries where we are taught to smile "CHEESE" in front of a camera lens even before learning to walk, I think it is quite natural that skaters from other cultures might not have such enthusiasm oozing out all over their faces. And it can also be argued how much expression is enough expression, because as an Asian American I myself prefer Shizuka Arakawa's cool style to Emily Hughes' "smile even when your butt is on the ice" type. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

R.D. · Nov 28, 2006

hmm, I never thought about it from that perspective. I guess that (culture) has a lot to do with it. On that topic, what do Koreans think of her (YuNa)?

michaela77 · Nov 28, 2006

(i really like the tone of this thread)

I personally admire Yu-na's smooth transitions and artistic presentation over Kimmie's. But I definitely think that Yu-na's lack of expression DOES affect her ability to connect with the viewer. I doubt that it has to do with the fact that she is Asian however, since that was not a problem in Michelle Kwan's case.

It's interesting that you chose to compare Kimmie and Yuna. I've always considered them as having two very different styles. But now I can see some similarities.

demarinis5 · Nov 28, 2006

Michelle is of Asian descent but raised in America and I would say culture wise she is an American. Whereas Yu-Na's cultrure is Korean. I like both Kimmie and Yu-Na very talented young ladies. I think Kimmie has more command of the ice than Yu-Na.

Joesitz (RIP) · Nov 29, 2006

Interesting comments but it was not about who has the best arms or the best anything.

It was about whether or not the skaters are showing something of themelves or are they just doing what the choreographer is telling them to do?

I think skatewise, YuNa has more tricks than Kimmie and a much bigger fan base, but her performances are exactly what the choreograher told her to do. I do not see anything that shows me YuNa's personality. I am not putting her down. This is my corrective criticism, and like Miki, she will soon develop that personality on the ice. It just isn't there yet.

Kimmie with her straight back is loosening up. There is so much improvement since Worlds and Skate America. She is definitely taking the choreographer's work and injecting her interpretation into it. It's not totally there yet, but it is showing signs that we will see Kimmie's maturity soon.

For those of you who have seen six or seven Swan Lakes on the stage, the choreography is always the same, the arms and flow, the lifts, the pirouettes are all the same. BUT think about why you prefer one ballerina over the other. That's what I am talking about.

Joe

antmanb · Nov 29, 2006

Joesitz said:
Interesting comments but it was not about who has the best arms or the best anything.

It was about whether or not the skaters are showing something of themelves or are they just doing what the choreographer is telling them to do?

I think skatewise, YuNa has more tricks than Kimmie and a much bigger fan base, but her performances are exactly what the choreograher told her to do. I do not see anything that shows me YuNa's personality. I am not putting her down. This is my corrective criticism, and like Miki, she will soon develop that personality on the ice. It just isn't there yet.

Kimmie with her straight back is loosening up. There is so much improvement since Worlds and Skate America. She is definitely taking the choreographer's work and injecting her interpretation into it. It's not totally there yet, but it is showing signs that we will see Kimmie's maturity soon.

For those of you who have seen six or seven Swan Lakes on the stage, the choreography is always the same, the arms and flow, the lifts, the pirouettes are all the same. BUT think about why you prefer one ballerina over the other. That's what I am talking about.

Joe

But do you need to know the skater in order to know their personality in order to assess if it come through in their skating? To show somethign of themselves is difficult to guage. Could it be that north americans see their own skaters showing some of themselves in perofrmances because you get the fluff pieces and the interviews and you speak the same language so you can tell tone of voice etc etc and start to get a feel for the skater is or might be like and then you can spot it in performances, whereas with Yu Na you might not be able to tell very much about her, your own cultural differences and language barriers might misinterpret her personality or you might just not be able to spot her showing herself in her performance?

It is just a question since i don't know what fluff pieces might ahve been done on Yu Na.

Ant

Joesitz (RIP) · Nov 29, 2006

antmanb said:
But do you need to know the skater in order to know their personality in order to assess if it come through in their skating? To show somethign of themselves is difficult to guage. Could it be that north americans see their own skaters showing some of themselves in perofrmances because you get the fluff pieces and the interviews and you speak the same language so you can tell tone of voice etc etc and start to get a feel for the skater is or might be like and then you can spot it in performances, whereas with Yu Na you might not be able to tell very much about her, your own cultural differences and language barriers might misinterpret her personality or you might just not be able to spot her showing herself in her performance?

It is just a question since i don't know what fluff pieces might ahve been done on Yu Na.

Ant

Ordinarily I would say I'm not interested in any female skater until she is at least 18y,o, and has lived a little. But in Sasha's case, her personality came out from day one!! Midori Ito showed personality at a young age. but these are exceptions to my take on young female skaters. It doesn't mean I like the personality but it gives me more of the understanding I get from a skater.

In the Men. If all the quads are met, what is it about Yagudin that makes you prefer him to Plushenko? - or vise versa? At that time would you have preferred Joubert even with the quads? Many fans go for wow tricks, others for nationality. It's all soooo subjective.

I do not favor either Kimmie or YuNa. I am waiting for them both to show me who they are while skating.

Joe

antmanb · Nov 29, 2006

Joesitz said:
Ordinarily I would say I'm not interested in any female skater until she is at least 18y,o, and has lived a little. But in Sasha's case, her personality came out from day one!! Midori Ito showed personality at a young age. but these are exceptions to my take on young female skaters. It doesn't mean I like the personality but it gives me more of the understanding I get from a skater.

I suppose my question was more around nationalities havinga bearing on what you understand from different skaters personlities and if that's important in observing their skating and on ice personality rather than an age thing. Preaubert is still very young but his humour comes across in his skating.

I was thinking specifically about the Chinese pairs Shen & Zhao and the criticism that they didn't show enough personality on the ice. of course competing against S&P and B&S they didn't really stand a chance with the personlity both of those couples had on the ice but some said shen & Zhao did show personality but it was too subtle for western audiences to grasp. In order for them to start winning they had to bring in western choreographers and do things that made teh program more accessible/obvious to the west. It was that kind of thing i was thinknig of not specifically rooting for your home team.

Joesitz said:
In the Men. If all the quads are met, what is it about Yagudin that makes you prefer him to Plushenko? - or vise versa? At that time would you have preferred Joubert even with the quads? Many fans go for wow tricks, others for nationality. It's all soooo subjective.

I do not favor either Kimmie or YuNa. I am waiting for them both to show me who they are while skating.

Joe

Personally i would choose Yags over Pluschenko but only a season or two after he moved to Tarasova, before that i found both extremely yawn worthy. They coud hit the tricks but they coulnd't entertain me at all.

If we're comparing a young Yags witha young Plush and a young Joubert then i'd shoose Joubert since i liked his debut (or maybe it was second) year in Seniors more than Yags or Plush's first or second.

Ant

dizzydi7 · Nov 29, 2006

Although I feel that Kimmie's presentation has improved over last year, I think her overall style is more athletic as opposed to artistic. YuNa's style, in my opinion, is graceful, smooth and more artistic than athletic. For me that is the biggest difference when comparing their skating.

YuNa has room for improvement as I still think she is rushing through her program which is indicative of a young skater. However, she has the prettiest arms which are very expressive and naturally graceful. I do believe a choreographer can show you how to execute the moves, but the natural gracefulness of YuNa is a natural talent.

What Kimmie has, which may serve her well, is her competitive spirit which makes her a threat for the podium everytime she skates. That strong will and composure under pressure may very well be her key to fame and fortune. This attribute is what I believe separates the truly successful skater from the rest. You can have all the talent in the world, as the case of Angela Nikodinov, and be your own worse enemy.

For me, presentation is everything in figure skating so I prefer the YuNa's to the Kimmie's of the skating world. But presentation alone doesn't win competitions.

Dizzy

kittyjake5 · Nov 29, 2006

dizzydi7 said:
Although I feel that Kimmie's presentation has improved over last year, I think her overall style is more athletic as opposed to artistic. YuNa's style, in my opinion, is graceful, smooth and more artistic than athletic. For me that is the biggest difference when comparing their skating.

YuNa has room for improvement as I still think she is rushing through her program which is indicative of a young skater. However, she has the prettiest arms which are very expressive and naturally graceful. I do believe a choreographer can show you how to execute the moves, but the natural gracefulness of YuNa is a natural talent.

What Kimmie has, which may serve her well, is her competitive spirit which makes her a threat for the podium everytime she skates. That strong will and composure under pressure may very well be her key to fame and fortune. This attribute is what I believe separates the truly successful skater from the rest. You can have all the talent in the world, as the case of Angela Nikodinov, and be your own worse enemy.

For me, presentation is everything in figure skating so I prefer the YuNa's to the Kimmie's of the skating world. But presentation alone doesn't win competitions.

Dizzy

I agree with the above. Good post. A lot of peopIe are counting Kimmie out for the World Title not me and a lot of reasons come into play, especially as you stated her strong will and composure under pressure. I think Kimmie's main competition at Worlds will not be Mao or YuNa but Fumie and Miki Ando. JMO

Spun Silver · Nov 29, 2006

I'm a little puzzled by the continued talk of Kimmie's composure. She had some significant problems in her GPF skates. I personally thought at least some of that might have been due to the pressure that she has experienced in the past 9 months. If it had been Sasha popping a jump or falling, everyone would have been talking about what a head case she is.

antmanb · Nov 29, 2006

Spun Silver said:
I'm a little puzzled by the continued talk of Kimmie's composure. She had some significant problems in her GPF skates. I personally thought at least some of that might have been due to the pressure that she has experienced in the past 9 months. If it had been Sasha popping a jump or falling, everyone would have been talking about what a head case she is.

Really? I personally would need to see at least two or more consistent seasons of making mistakes in programs before labelling someone a hed case. Rohene War, Emanual Sandhu have long histories is imploding when it counts. Sasha now has racked up enough seasons for people to expect the one or two falls/mistakes per LP. I don't think i'm ready to say that about Kimmie or Emily yet (as many have) and i don't think i'm ready to say it of Weir yet either.

I think Kimmie is where she wants to be. Last season she started slowly and built. This year she's started the season with better presentation and with the jumps around where they were last season. If she puts in teh work she did last year through the season i see no reason why her this year wouldn't mimic last years and see a progressive improvements through Nationals with a peak at Worlds.

The difference with her and Sasha is that she clinched the Gold at worlds so she's going to get the benefit of the doubt now - she's done it before so she might just be having an off competition(s) whereas Sasha kept falling short so the assumption/presumption was that she would likely continue to fall short.

Ant

Kimmie's and YuNa's Presentation

Joesitz (RIP)

MKFSfan

waxel

jesslily

hongligl

riverflows

Fossi

R.D.

Skye

R.D.

michaela77

demarinis5

Gold for the Winter Prince!

Joesitz (RIP)

antmanb

Joesitz (RIP)

antmanb

dizzydi7

kittyjake5

Spun Silver

antmanb

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