Johnny Still Quadless

I have such mixed feelings about Johnny. I love his skating and I want him to do well but it seems like he puts other things ahead of his skating. During his interview with Petah, he seems so hmmm oh hummm. I just want to shake him and say..........don't you know what you're doing for my anxiety level???

It seems like Paul thinks Johnny should go for the quad regardless. In a way, I'm agreeing.

Any other thoughts??

Dee

I agree i think he should put it in. He had it consistent in practices last season so I thikn he should take the Buttle tactic and put it in - even if he falls he still gets points for it so long as he rotates it. Better that then to not try it and leave out another jumping pass to give his scores a pounding in the TES.

Ant

I agree! I am tired of endless waiting. You will never feel you'll be ready. It's like to go to a final exam in school. You want to get perfect. The more you want to get it perfect, the more you'll feel you'll never be ready. Even though you studied so hard and you read everything and tried to remember everything you could possibly read and remember, you will never feel that you are ready for the exam.

Just do it! Even fall a couple of times, so what? Like Jeff Buttle. Jeff is a fighter, and a great competitor. Johnny is a talented skater, but not a good competitor. It is so frustrating to hear him keep saying what he wanted but couldn't deliver it to maximize his chances. I am sure he is frustrated, too.

But as free spirited, and stubborn as Johnny, he couldn't, and wouldn't do well with the outside pressure. It has to be he HIMSELF who wants to do it. Otherwise, he will not do well even if he put the quad in the programs. I think we have seen it last year at the Worlds. He put the quad in both qualifying, and LP. He was like beaten down by somebody before it even started. Of course, he had back problem at that time. But I was convinced that the pressure from outside played a big role there, too.

I think that is why even his coach Priscilla couldn't do anything except waiting.

True, he wasn't focusing on his skating. He knows it. I hope he could focus from now on. I hope he could win at the Nationals again this year. Whether he could win or not is a big question.

Johnny is painfully honest. Did he say at COR, or did a commentator quote him as saying, that Joubert is the best in the world? To me, that goes beyond honesty to the point of self-deprecation. Shouldn't a champion say, "Hey, I could do that! I gotta get to work. I'm going to beat that guy"?

Spun Silver said:

Johnny is painfully honest. Did he say at COR, or did a commentator quote him as saying, that Joubert is the best in the world? To me, that goes beyond honesty to the point of self-deprecation. Shouldn't a champion say, "Hey, I could do that! I gotta get to work. I'm going to beat that guy"?

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Yes, a "champion" would say that. Or he would at least put on something remotely resembling a game face.
Before Joubert became "the best in the world", there was Plushenko. The first couple of times I heard Johnny talk like that, I thought he was being such a nice guy, tossing compliments to the guys that were beating him. Since then, though, I've begun to wonder if this is his way of excusing himself when he skates badly. Oh, well, the other guy was unbeatable, so why even bother trying?
It's really starting to bother me, how someone with so much talent and potential can show so little self-confidence. Geez, Johnny, just attempt the freaking jump! Did Joubert and Plushenko land the first few dozen quads they tried in competition? Doubtful - although if someone has those stats, I'd love to hear them!
xoxo
Rave

I normally never participate in non-ladies (or non-general) threads but would just like to say that it must come from WITHIN Johnny if he really wants to step it up and take a shot at the top. If he doesn't care (or doesn't believe that he can do it), then he doesn't- I don't think he should be lambasted(sp) by fans for lack of motivation. Actually, if that's true I feel bad for him because I've felt that way before (about something different, of course). Instead he should be encouraged- probably by his coach and training staff.

Well, Tsar Plushenko has declared that Johnny has the talent to be the next king of skating (not an exact quote, lol). How much more encouragement does he need?! Plus, he's already landing quads himself.

Maybe a sports psychologist could help.

Spun Silver said:

Maybe a sports psychologist could help.

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Or a good whack up along side the head!! Don't get me wrong, I like Johnny but it's getting to the point where I just want to shake him and say.........what do you want to do, skate? or play? If you want to continue to play then step aside and play. If you want to skate and win a 4th National title then get to work!!! You know Evan's going to take that title if you don't put forth some effort here.

From the look on Marina face, I thought she was going to start chewing on him. I think Johnny did the best when he was being coached a couple of seasons ago with Tatianna. I know that Alexei has mentioned that Tatianna was a real task master. I really think Johnny needs that ............if he wants to continue to skate.

Dee

Dee4707 said:

Or a good whack up along side the head!! Don't get me wrong, I like Johnny but it's getting to the point where I just want to shake him and say.........what do you want to do, skate? or play? If you want to continue to play then step aside and play. If you want to skate and win a 4th National title then get to work!!! You know Evan's going to take that title if you don't put forth some effort here.

From the look on Marina face, I thought she was going to start chewing on him. I think Johnny did the best when he was being coached a couple of seasons ago with Tatianna. I know that Alexei has mentioned that Tatianna was a real task master. I really think Johnny needs that ............if he wants to continue to skate.

Dee

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Errm, who said that Johnny doesn't work and plays instead? He said he was behind in his training because of the COI tour, just like everyone else who was on that tour (Lysacek, Tanith and Ben and Lambiel) have said the EXACT same thing and to be honest have also been underperforming this season. So why is everyone lambasting Weir for not working hard when there is no evidence of that at all?

P.S: Johnny said that Marina is way more a taskmaster than TAT, so take that as you will.

Seems to me the *main* topic here isn't his work ethic but his attitude - how bad does he want to win? how much does he believe in himself? etc. He is just not sounding like a fighter.

psycho said:

P.S: Johnny said that Marina is way more a taskmaster than TAT, so take that as you will.

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Yeah, but Marina is not really there while he's training. She's got her own stuff going on. They had only a short time (a week, I think he said) to put together his SP. And they did the LP during the COI tour--not an optimal situation. Training with Tarasova at Simsbury, she was there all the time. He said Marina calls him once a week and emails with him to keep up with his progress. Not the same thing.

And about the quad, FWIW, I heard that TAT gave an interview on Russian TV in which she expressed her frustration that, when he was spending summers with her, he was doing beautiful quads all the time in practice. She thought that he would have been doing them regularly in competition by now. Instead, he isn't even talking with any real conviction about putting one in.

I really hope he manages to get it together and shock everyone (in a positive way, lol) at the GPF.

seafoam said:

And about the quad, FWIW, I heard that TAT gave an interview on Russian TV in which she expressed her frustration that, when he was spending summers with her, he was doing beautiful quads all the time in practice. She thought that he would have been doing them regularly in competition by now. Instead, he isn't even talking with any real conviction about putting one in.

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Johnny has been doing the quad really well in practices based on the reports from people who were there. His problem was always putting the quads in during competitions, and that was an issue even when he was with TAT. I am not saying that there is no problem there. Obviously there is some kind of issue with the quad, be it a mental block or whatever. I am just bothered by the fact that Johnny is constantly being singled out about the quad and the inconsistency when most others are in the same situation. Lysacek, Buttle, Oda to name a few are also quadless wonders, Daisuke and Lambiel have been incosistent this season too. Why is no one is questioning their motivation?

psycho said:

I am just bothered by the fact that Johnny is constantly being singled out about the quad and the inconsistency when most others are in the same situation. Lysacek, Buttle, Oda to name a few are also quadless wonders, Daisuke and Lambiel have been incosistent this season too. Why is no one is questioning their motivation?

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I think it's because people care about him more. They all think that with Johnny's ability, he could and should have won by now. They want him to win and they want to find out why he hasn't won. They are all with good intention and frustrated in some degree. Being singled out is not always a bad thing.

It's not the quad per se. It seems to me that the others are tougher mentally. If they fight their hardest and come up short, who can complain? But Johnny sometimes seems to give up without a fight, and that is frustrating in one so wonderfully talented.

In a weir(d) way it's also part of his charm, though...

psycho said:

Johnny has been doing the quad really well in practices based on the reports from people who were there. His problem was always putting the quads in during competitions, and that was an issue even when he was with TAT. I am not saying that there is no problem there. Obviously there is some kind of issue with the quad, be it a mental block or whatever. I am just bothered by the fact that Johnny is constantly being singled out about the quad and the inconsistency when most others are in the same situation. Lysacek, Buttle, Oda to name a few are also quadless wonders, Daisuke and Lambiel have been incosistent this season too. Why is no one is questioning their motivation?

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Well, Daisuke had a kick butt performance at NHK - so questions about him are on hold; Lambiel - ill/injured? and like Weir began training late - and people are talking about it (even on GSF). People have talked about Buttle and the quad - some lively debate here last year about whether or not it was fair that he would throw it in 'knowing' he would fall (which led to debates about whether he 'knew' he would fall or not), and anyway, he's out with injury right now; everyone says Oda hasn't learned the quad yet - but wow can he jump and his team knows how to put what he can do in the right order to rack up points (i think the implication is that if he learns the quad and uses it, he's certain to set new pb records, and until then he's making the most of what he can do)...etc.

My point, it seems we talk about men and the quad often - and a range of men at that. Some people wish the quad weren't a factor; others want to see it given more value since it is so difficult and so on.

The reason, I think, that motivation comes up with Weir (and not, simply can he or can he not do it) is that many of us have seen him do beautiful quads and quad combos in practice sessions - i mean BEAUTIFUL ones. So, we KNOW he can. So, what is stopping him from just putting in every comp for a year no matter what the consequence, to get over the competition nerves/adrenaline that make it that much more hard to execute??? Perhaps this season the answer is what he recently said: i'm not trained enough (which, given the longer COI tour I totally believe as he, Lambiel, B/A and others are just behind schedule). Ok, but then what's the plan to get this out in comps and practiced in comps before the really big comps like Nats and Worlds? What about last season? There just always seems to be a reason for not doing it but to some people not a very clear or good reason - so questioning what really motivates him.

Anyway, I love Weir's skating (and many of his interviews too) and would just love to see him put down two energetic and clean programs. That would be a huge treat, quad or no quad. Based on some of what we are seeing from the men, he might need the quad if he really wants to medal at worlds.

jennylovskt said:

I think it's because people care about him more. They all think that with Johnny's ability, he could and should have won by now. They want him to win and they want to find out why he hasn't won. They are all with good intention and frustrated in some degree. Being singled out is not always a bad thing.

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I think that is a really positive way to look at things, and I agree.