Marketing of FS

SeaniBu · Dec 6, 2006

Marketing, Broadcasting and over all appearance / appeal of Figure Skating in the future. "Look and Feel"

Let's hear it. All of it. They are obviously looking and now is going to be a good time to be heard. And everyone knows, most of you here can "word" it better than I can :agree: .

I think with the right amount of "well thought" and "constructive" suggestions, people like those here on GS CAN make a difference. GS has more rationality and common sense than any forum about any sports IMO (limited assessment of Seanibu) and instead of snaking, snideness and bickering, there are great comments made here. And I truly believe this is "one of them" that is read on at least occasion of the "powers that be."

Do you have a suggestion for a change OR even for it to stay the same?

If it starts catering to "Boys" and putting in "pop rock" music and focusing more on the "sexy" and "athletic" appeal of FS are you going to stop watching? Or watch more? Will it make a difference to you as an already fan?

I would like to see (but whatever Seani) lists that could be submitted as suggestions - that type of thing. Like..

1. Realtime scoreboard on screen.

2. Program requirements in music tempo (say a list of choices) for the SP. Fast beat, popular music, lyrics or not! If lyrics are a factor in influencing judging then the judge should be disqualified. SP also has No costumes. Just what would be worn in a practice or submitted as the SP uniform for all skaters from that country or club. Of course a woman and man difference.

3. LP. A "clown costume" is a "clown costume," no matter if you are trying to look like a "tough Bozo" you still are dressing like a Bozo. No Animal, Floral, or florescent colors!!!!! Pre submitted (as are now) for approval and having a country skating for "mark" and no other words, names or numbers. Like 007 across the back of a sport coat. that is just "kiddy stuff." Same music guidelines.

4. If a commentator makes a comment during a routine, it had best be about the routine and brief, no more Opra comments.

5. Rename the Kiss and Cry, something along the lines of "score reception bench."

6. "Agony of defeat" clips added to advertising and intros. In any promo do NOT show spiral sq.s or guys acting like Richard Simmons on ice.

7. More "hard core focus" on sports factors and run downs instead of fluff and "little girls have big dreams too." - yep, I would miss it but not that much really

8. NEVER cut off a figure skaters blade with the camera or ANYTHING put on screen. Compensate / coordinate with crew not to have this happen even unintentionally. If they are going to put a "ticker up" then they need to zoom out a little to compensate. Zooming during motion should only be to the blades and VERY limited in doing so.

It is not that I don't like it now, and I would like it the same or changed, but I don't like it not being popular enough that there are funding issues and such little air time. Heck, I like Disney on Ice, but there are not to many of my type to keep the revenue and fans growing with what is has been doing. Promos are getting better IMO, but everything else - same old fluff and bunnies - even though I like them.

I never hear old guys saying "I don't watch football anymore because the music has changed into this young whipper snapper stuff with Puff Dog and Screaming Meemees." And why cater to the crowds that don't go for physical reasons ( I know from Mom that it just hurts to much to ascend and descend those stairs), when they do they get the discount price (as they should but...) or their grand kids are over to the house that night???

SeaniBu · Dec 6, 2006

Oh, and fire "Speedy" and replace with Kurt Browning!

R.D. · Dec 6, 2006

Have you tried organizing a petition and sending it to the network (or the USFS)? If you feel that strongly about it, it's worth a shot.

SeaniBu · Dec 6, 2006

Red Dog said:
Have you tried organizing a petition and sending it to the network (or the USFS)? If you feel that strongly about it, it's worth a shot.

In a way I hope that is where this whole thing maybe heading.

I have sent many comments and suggestions prior, that I have had here (think the appearance of the "timer" may have...well speculation). Mostly I think now is the matter of numbers. Them hearing from more then the 50 people nation wide they might hear from on FS. I think a problem with some of it is I wont change my user name and I went trough a breakdown and substance abuse and questionable yet not illegal artistic endeavors in 2002 - 04 and deemed myself.... a "jerk" I guess. Some conversations online where venting on the wrong people - it was just a phase I believe spawned on by corporate America - and a search will show some not so good Seanibu. Maybe that concussion in March too :laugh:

Either that - like I humbly admit - I am not succinct and wording often comes through better when someone else says the same thing I have tried to - remember RD, I didn't know any other meaning to "eta" than estimated arrival time. I never had the problem even when being a logistics specialist in the HQ Ed dept. of a 7,000 WW corporation (but they like me being a jerk), but when it comes to Skating everyone seems to get the meaning quicker when someone else says it. That is why I ask. Plus they want stats.

Also I hadn't got back on the ice since 3rd grade with any seriousness until after watching CoR 2005 and working with a developmentally disabled kid whos father was a hockey coach. And only 3 months before joining here did I start learning more then how to identify jumps and spins. I didn't even know the names of the foot work I was trying to emulate. Anyway enough about me, But that is why I feel like it needs to be more then just me trying to start this revolution. If I could "storm the castle" of the ISU and put MM, gkelly, Joe, chuckum, anttyfan, antmanb, waxel, etc......(I am not going to try and name every one sorry, there are so many here I respect :bow:

) in the thrown I would. :agree:

Now I think we need to use our numbers and everyone of us needs to be heard. That way they will think there are 70% or more out there with the same notion but not speaking. LOL

btw. I am trying to be a good guy again.

Jaana · Dec 6, 2006

Red Dog said:
Have you tried organizing a petition and sending it to the network (or the USFS)? If you feel that strongly about it, it's worth a shot.

Personally I believe that organizing a sending of emails from e.g. 200 figure skating fans or more during a specific time (say during three specific days), is more effective than organizing a petition with e.g. 200 000 signed names. A LOT of emails arriving about the same matter gets more attention, LOL.

gsrossano · Dec 6, 2006

Being bored tonight, let me throw out a provocative question or two, just to be provacative and see how stirred up people get.

Other than eliminating the boring factor in the arena itself due to dead time, and the similarity of the programs, both introduced by IJS, why does skating have to be marketed/repackaged/reinvented at all for the sake of attracting TV ratings?

What is the purpose of being big (economically) just for the sake of being big if it means completely changing the sport into something else?

Why can't it be accepted that skating has always been a niche sport, that has never had great public interest other than in the 90s which was an abberration?

There are plenty of sports that are niche sports, that don't get on TV. So what if they are not on TV? They survive just fine not being on TV. And so can skating.

So the market shrinks. People are still going to skate, and if the public want to watch it they can go to an arena and watch it in person. So the federations lose some TV revenue, a lot of TV revenue. So what? The federations didn't need a ton of money to produce great skaters in the past. Do they really need it now?

Should the focus of the federations be on the economics of getting people to watch? Or should the focus be on getting people to skate, and seeing to it they have fun doing it? Does one really need the former to accomplish the latter?

SeaniBu · Dec 6, 2006

Jaana said:
Personally I believe that organizing a sending of emails from e.g. 200 figure skating fans or more during a specific time (say during three specific days), is more effective than organizing a petition with e.g. 200 000 signed names. A LOT of emails arriving about the same matter gets more attention, LOL.

:agree: Good idea, and on the other side of the coin it might p.o the admin. :laugh:

How about both?

SeaniBu · Dec 6, 2006

gsrossano said:
Being bored tonight, let me throw out a provocative question or two, just to be provacative and see how stirred up people get.

Other than eliminating the boring factor in the arena itself due to dead time, and the similarity of the programs, both introduced by IJS, why does skating have to be marketed/repackaged/reinvented at all for the sake of attracting TV ratings?

What is the purpose of being big (economically) just for the sake of being big if it means completely changing the sport into something else?

Why can't it be accepted that skating has always been a niche sport, that has never had great public interest other than in the 90s which was an abberration?

There are plenty of sports that are niche sports, that don't get on TV. So what if they are not on TV? They survive just fine not being on TV. And so can skating.

So the market shrinks. People are still going to skate, and if the public want to watch it they can go to an arena and watch it in person. So the federations lose some TV revenue, a lot of TV revenue. So what? The federations didn't need a ton of money to produce great skaters in the past. Do they really need it now?

Should the focus of the federations be on the economics of getting people to watch? Or should the focus be on getting people to skate, and seeing to it they have fun doing it? Does one really need the former to accomplish the latter?

I appreciate that. I really do.:agree: To answer the question briefly as possible. The less the sport generates interest, the lest people will have interest in the sport. This means less potential competitors narrowing the field to not the best of the best, but the best of the few that were interested. Meaning viewers could see better competitor potentials if there were more competitors interested in becoming competitors. Also, I don't like getting up at 2:30 am to watch.

Last, I think the skaters deserve more for what they have given to me and others, and until I win the lotto and build that 5 rink "commune" in the mountains and tell all the skaters who have a hard time finding ice time they can skate and stay for free while they train... then I want it to have more attention so there is more money for skaters to have the opportunities and give the fans the best of the best rather then the best of the lucky enough to find a place and funds to train.

I do love the devils advocate.:agree:

R.D. · Dec 7, 2006

And remember that tact is the key. Also, the flip side is that if the networks receive too many complaints, they may just scrap it altogether rather than change it.

SeaniBu · Dec 7, 2006

Red Dog said:
And remember that tact is the key. Also, the flip side is that if the networks receive too many complaints, they may just scrap it altogether rather than change it.

See what I mean, so much better than...

SeaniBu said:
:agree: Good idea, and on the other side of the coin it might p.o the admin.
How about both?

:agree:
So true RD, people think the squeaky wheel gets the oil. Truth of the matter is the squeaky wheel gets replaced.:yes:

How about the low air pressure tire, gets the air???? :laugh:

Don't pop it!

SeaniBu · Dec 7, 2006

gsrossano said:
Why can't it be accepted that skating has always been a niche sport, that has never had great public interest other than in the 90s which was an abberration?

Don't forget 1920-48+

anya_angie · Dec 7, 2006

I think skating in general is being portrayed as a delicate sport to delicate music. Upon chatting with a film score collector about my top 10 FAVORITE (not best) scores of all time, explaining why I put Gladiator as #4, I mentioned the hit that it was in skating and how it brought me to the movie. If it weren't for Yagudin I never would have seen the movie. I showed him Yagudin's performance from 02 Worlds QR and he was STUNNED. This guy doesn't like skating, but he was stunned that Yagudin was (A) using a film score and (B) skating so powerfully to it. When I told him about the knives exhibition he was even more impressed. I said Yeah, skating isn't as delicate as it is portrayed to be.

dutchherder · Dec 7, 2006

I think the skating with live music cheesefests need to go away. I can, on brief occasions, get my husband to watch a bit of some of the big competitions (Olympics, Worlds), but *if* I am watching something more fluffy (which I rarely do because I don't like cheesefests either) he typically mumbles swear words and walks out of the room. :eek:

hwell:

Also, if they concentrated more on the athleticism of the sport, more people would respect it. Honestly, if you want my opinion, many skaters are a heck of a lot tougher than some pro football players. Think of all the skaters competing with stress fractures or after major surgeries. I've never seen a skater roll around on the ice for 10 minutes, waiting for a stretcher because of a leg cramp. They only talk about those things in passing, while they do fluff pieces about Katy Taylor wanting a pink Hummer.

Many credit the Tonya Harding/Nancy Kerrigan debacle with increasing the popularity of the sport, but what I think it actually did was reiterate the concept that FS is a non-sport full of drama queens, that it's more like a really feisty reality show.

I think some restrictions on costuming would be a plus as well. The ladies rarely look ridiculous, but some of the men--- egad. Don't even get me started on the ice dance teams. Some of those women look like they coated themselves in super glue and rolled around in a craft store. I rather like the suggestion of wearing simple workout/practice apparel for qualifying rounds and/or SP's.

Mathman · Dec 7, 2006

dutchherder said:
...Some of those women look like they coated themselves in super glue and rolled around in a craft store...

:chorus: See, that's why I love this board. You wake up in the morning and get to read a sentence like that! :chorus:

gsrossano · Dec 7, 2006

SeaniBu said:
I ... The less the sport generates interest, the lest people will have interest in the sport. This means less potential competitors narrowing the field to not the best of the best, but the best of the few that were interested.

I think this is the key thing to the who cares question. Many skaters say they first got interested in skating because they saw it on TV. Having positive public awareness is very important, and most general public awareness comes from TV.

But TV is a double edge sword. If TV does not provide a positive awareness, or an accurate representation of what skating is about, TV can hurt more than help. And the media's obsession with scandal as a way to generate ratings makes it worse. (Of course skating also has itself to blame for a lot of that too.)

My view over the years is that TV has never done a particulary good job at educating the public about what skating really is about, or why a competition turns out a certain way. Unfortunately, it is pretty common to hear commentators say thing that are just plain wrong, and show they really don't understand the details of IJS, what it rewards, or doesn't, and why.

Getting skating treated by the media as a "real" sport is a long standing problem. I don't think TV really projects it as a sport. Major newspapers give it little coverage except for Nationals, Olympics and Worlds. Other than those competitions, it rarely gets a mention in TV sport news broadcast.

Here in LA you can sometimes finds coverage of high school sports in the Times and on the evening news, but not the Grand Prix, or Reginals or Sectionals.

Tonichelle · Dec 7, 2006

I guess I like the current rules for both teh music and costumes... yes some of the costumes are outrageous and disgusting... but I need some color in my life lol

I think instead of figure skating changing to fit the public eye, it needs to just prove itself as it stands now... Johnny Weir, for all of his quirks made a lot of headlines with this style. Yeah he turned just as many people off as on, but he got people talking and watching. I don't think his costumes detracted people so much as what was said from and about him.

I don't think skating will see what we saw after 94 for a long time if ever again. Apparently until there is blood shed and real scandel people just won't pay attention. At least not in the US... Canada is rabid when it comes to their athletes, but then I don't think they're half as rabid on their football programs? I could be wrong, I just never hear about the off ice sports as much.

Until the US gets off it's stereotypes ON ITS OWN (And the MEDIA is at fault, not the USFSA or skating in general) we're not going to see it being taken seriously

and really skating is no less popular than gymnastics or swimming, both of which have uniforms and are very athletic without the artistry.

Vodka Shot · Dec 7, 2006

I’m about to piss off some ppl but, the only way to have an open discussion about the decline of the sport is w/ real words and an open dialogue.
There is no way in hell the avg. American man is going to ever watch figure skating. Why? Because the avg. American man associates this sport w/ homosexuality and considers it a ‘woman’s’ sport. I’m not talking about European men or the rare American man that is comfortable w/ his sexuality. I’m talking about your typical middle class, American man. For the sake of argument let’s call this guy Joe. The only way that Joe is going to watch FS is if the sport changes so drastically from what it is today that he no longer detects the slightest hint of gayness or femininity to it. The fine line that divides art and sport would have to cease to exist. FS would have to become complete sport. This can be accomplished. Things that they’d have to change would be:
1)No costumes. Skaters would wear matching unitards akin to the uniform of speed skaters.
2)No music. Quarterbacks do not throw passes while Mozart echoes in the background.
3)Skaters would only do elements that show flexibility, strength, and jump technique. No choreography. In fact skaters would only be required to come out and do certain pre-assigned elements-jumps, spins, how well they control edge, number of rotations, etc. PCS would be gone. Pure TES.
4)All personal cutesy stuff would have to go; no stuffed animals, no roses, no kiss & cry, no crying fluff pieces.
5)Guys like Johnny Weir would be persuaded from competing. I’m not sure how that would be accomplished but, I’m sure the ensuing scuffle w/ the ACLU would be interesting to watch.

One of the problems w/ FS is it doesn’t know quite what it is? Is it art or sport? If all of the artistry is removed, if it becomes complete sport then and only then after many years would the USFSA be able to persuade “Joe” to watch. The preconceived notion of FS being a sport for gay men and women is so deeply ingrained in the American psyche that it would take these drastic measures to get “Joe” to watch. Now the question is? How many “Joe’s” would watch? FS would no doubt lose nearly all female and gay viewing. So, they would need to bring in enough Joe’s to counter that loss. I suspect that this brave new form of FS would have viewing numbers similar to speed skating, but less. The ‘race’ aspect of speed skating would entertain Joe more so it would be more popular. The numbers would be no where near as high as hockey b/c hockey has fighting, racing, and a puck. Therefore instead of raping FS I think they should accept it for what it is. A blend of sport and art. Ppl don’t love Sasha Cohen b/c she’s a great jumper, they love her b/c her spirals take your breathe away. Ppl don’t love Johnny Weir b/c he’s well behaved and butch, they love him b/c he’s outrageous and slightly neurotic. Accept that the avg. viewers are women and gay men. Instead of turning the sport inside out in the hopes of reaching the “Joe” demographic court the demographic that you already know exists? It would be possible to interest the Joe’s of America in FS but, it would be at the cost of those who already love the sport and I’m not sure the new “Joe’s” would come fast or in large enough numbers to balance that loss? JMHO

gio · Dec 7, 2006

Vodka Shot said:
I’m about to piss off some ppl but, the only way to have an open discussion about the decline of the sport is w/ real words and an open dialogue.
There is no way in hell the avg. American man is going to ever watch figure skating. Why? Because the avg. American man associates this sport w/ homosexuality and considers it a ‘woman’s’ sport. I’m not talking about European men or the rare American man that is comfortable w/ his sexuality. I’m talking about your typical middle class, American man. For the sake of argument let’s call this guy Joe. The only way that Joe is going to watch FS is if the sport changes so drastically from what it is today that he no longer detects the slightest hint of gayness or femininity to it. The fine line that divides art and sport would have to cease to exist. FS would have to become complete sport. This can be accomplished. Things that they’d have to change would be:
1)No costumes. Skaters would wear matching unitards akin to the uniform of speed skaters.
2)No music. Quarterbacks do not throw passes while Mozart echoes in the background.
3)Skaters would only do elements that show flexibility, strength, and jump technique. No choreography. In fact skaters would only be required to come out and do certain pre-assigned elements-jumps, spins, how well they control edge, number of rotations, etc. PCS would be gone. Pure TES.
4)All personal cutesy stuff would have to go; no stuffed animals, no roses, no kiss & cry, no crying fluff pieces.
5)Guys like Johnny Weir would be persuaded from competing. I’m not sure how that would be accomplished but, I’m sure the ensuing scuffle w/ the ACLU would be interesting to watch.

One of the problems w/ FS is it doesn’t know quite what it is? Is it art or sport? If all of the artistry is removed, if it becomes complete sport then and only then after many years would the USFSA be able to persuade “Joe” to watch. The preconceived notion of FS being a sport for gay men and women is so deeply ingrained in the American psyche that it would take these drastic measures to get “Joe” to watch. Now the question is? How many “Joe’s” would watch? FS would no doubt lose nearly all female and gay viewing. So, they would need to bring in enough Joe’s to counter that loss. I suspect that this brave new form of FS would have viewing numbers similar to speed skating, but less. The ‘race’ aspect of speed skating would entertain Joe more so it would be more popular. The numbers would be no where near as high as hockey b/c hockey has fighting, racing, and a puck. Therefore instead of raping FS I think they should accept it for what it is. A blend of sport and art. Ppl don’t love Sasha Cohen b/c she’s a great jumper, they love her b/c her spirals take your breathe away. Ppl don’t love Johnny Weir b/c he’s well behaved and butch, they love him b/c he’s outrageous and slightly neurotic. Accept that the avg. viewers are women and gay men. Instead of turning the sport inside out in the hopes of reaching the “Joe” demographic court the demographic that you already know exists? It would be possible to interest the Joe’s of America in FS but, it would be at the cost of those who already love the sport and I’m not sure the new “Joe’s” would come fast or in large enough numbers to balance that loss? JMHO

How many stereotypes you have expressed!!!! I hope it isn't true that most Americans think that FS = Femenine sport. That thinking it will be just... wel narrow minded.
NO SPORT IS FEMENINE AND NO SPORT IS MASCULINE IMO!!!!! This is enforcing social and sexual norms.

gio · Dec 7, 2006

What is femenine in FS? Jumping??? Spinning??? Expressing the character of the music??? Spread Eagles???

Sorry, I don't see nothing femenine nor masculine in those elements. It's just expressing ART.
Are all artist women or gay men? What a great stupidity!!!
Are all women that play basketball, baseball or i don't know which other sport gay women!!! Gimme a break!!!
In every sport, profession, family there are straight men and women and gay men and women. And I don't have nothing against it! Saying you should do FS because you are a girl and hockey because you are a boy is just STUPID STUPID STUPID!!

Excuse me for my explosion!

Vodka Shot · Dec 7, 2006

Yes, unfortunately I do think most Americans view FS as a feminine sport. I actually think a lot of Americans see it more as “entertainment” then “sport.” I would think the avg. American when thinking of FS 1st thinks of pretty girls in pretty dresses smiling and crying, then gay men, and then Tonya Harding. We of course know that there’s so much more to FS. We know that skaters are hardcore athletes that train just as hard if not harder then football players. The question is how do you get other ppl to realize and appreciate this w/out destroying the beauty of it? I think a lot of fans of this sport esp. the ones that have loved it for so long don’t realize how deeply ingrained these stereotypes are in America. We want to think it’s not true but, I seriously think the avg. person see’s the sport this way.

Marketing of FS

SeaniBu

SeaniBu

R.D.

SeaniBu

Jaana

gsrossano

SeaniBu

SeaniBu

R.D.

SeaniBu

SeaniBu

anya_angie

dutchherder

Mathman

gsrossano

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

Vodka Shot

gio

gio

Vodka Shot

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