Marketing of FS

Joesitz said:

There are professional woman's basketball teams. The NY team is called Liberty. Of course, in addition to figure skating, women participate in Golf and Tennis. Definitely Soccer.

The only sport I know of where boys and girls compete in the same events is in Equestrian. However, there may be more coming along. Golf seems to be opening up their biggies for women too. I just don't care about their sexual identities.

Joe

Click to expand...

I thought the question was about mixed gender teams. Girls and boys sometimes compete together on the same team and/or against each other in many recreational sports. But there are also a lot of sports where it is forbidden. Mixed gender teams are permitted in synchro. Boys/girls can compete against each other in many skating events, but not all. There have been a small number of cases in high school sports where boys and girls have "crossed over" to compete on a team with the opposite sex. Girls on "boys" hockey teams is not uncommon out here (LA). I think that is all good to encourage participation. Up until puberty is fairly advanced, girls and boys are generally equally strong (as a group) and there is no physical reason why girls and boys cannot compete together in a sport.

gio said:

All I can say is "Oh, my goodness!" I hope that your description isn't true!
So, in America if you like violence you are straight, if not you are gay? I'm sorry, but I just can't believe that in USA people think in that way!
Practically you are saying that the avg American man is interested just in action movies, football, bear and violence, because if not, people will question their sexuality?

Click to expand...

Marketing people generally seem to assume (maybe wrongly) that to sell something to the average American male it must conform to a stereotypical notion of what manly or macho is. Do they do it that way because they don't know what they are doing, or because that's the way society is, and it works? I'm not saying the average guy is interrested in something because if they don't people will question their "manliness". I am claiming many boys/men avoid things if they fear it will cause their peers to question their manliness.

Who are the Carl's Juniors commecials targeted at? Not girls/women I would guess. Why does Hollywood market one type of film in one way to attract teenage boys and other films are marketed a different way aimed at a female audience, and yet another way to attract tweens? In fact, movies are often produced to appeal to a specific audience and then marketed to bring that audience into the theatre (or so says my relative the production company executive).

So last night, I'm watching a repeat of South Park and Kenny is taking home economics while Stan, Kyle and Cartman are in shop class. They are asked why they are in shop class and Stan says -- we didn't take home economics because we didn't want people to think we were sissies. It was a funny way of illustrating the idea that many boys tend to avoid things that they think will make them look less manly to their friends.

I think a lot of young boys would be willing to try figure skating but don't because they are afraid their friends will think them "sissies", or are afraid dad wouldn't approve, and thus don't try it. Hockey yes. Public sessions yes. But unfortunately competing to music, gives a lot of young boys pause.

Then this story in the LA Times yeserday. Actual headline.

"Manliness is next to godliness"
"Convinced that men are dodging church because it saps their masculinity, some evangelists invoke a tougher Jesus to get the rams back into the fold"

So it even spills over into selling religion now! Apparently some churches now think if you want to bring men into church you need a macho savior!

Anyway, back to marketing. You can

1. Accept skating for what it is, reognize your demographic group, and do what it takes to get as many people in the deographic group watching or in an arena. Clearly things have slipped in this area over the years. So how do you get more of your core demographic group (women, children, families) back? What has changed that has driven them away? Figure it out and fix it.

2. You better educate the public about what skating is in the hope you can expand your demograpahic group, without making major changes to the sport. This has never been done particularly well by the federations, so there is a lot that could be tried. TV has not been particularly helpful in this area either.

3. You change the sport to make it appeal to a wider or bigger demographic group. Most suggested changes along these lines don't appeal to me because they turn skating into something I wouldn't be interested in. Also, I think 1 and 2 will be easier to accomplish and more successful. Truth be told, I like the wierd stuff that some skaters put on the ice, I like the music, I like the bizzare costumes, and I like the perfomance aspect of it. But I also expect the skaters to execute the athletic side of it first. I can't enjoy a performance if a skater is wiping up the ice, no matter how "artistic it is", no more than I could enjoy a musical performance if the pianist hits a lot of clinkers, or the singers voice cracks because they can't reach the notes, or a play where the actors can't remember their lines and mumble.

skating is what skating is and will NEVER attract the "macho" crowd. I would attempt to build on the core audience of older women and try to advertise skating during programs that older women tend to watch. (I don't know if that's being done already but judging from comments I will assume not.) But to try to appeal to a DIFFERENT audience is not a good direction IMO. I think this also explains why the people up front really don't have much of a clue as to how to sell skating WELL. It's one thing for skating to lose popularity due to lack of interest but another for skating to lose even MORE popularity because folks are unaware of events, TV programs, etc.

krenseby said:

...

The problem with skating ratings seems to be is that nobody believes the World Championships to be important. It has always been about the Olympics.

Click to expand...

I think that you are right -- it is impossible to maintain public interest in a sport whose "big event" is only every four years. I also think that all the stress on Olys will discourage certain "star" skaters from turning pro, unless economically forced to do so, simply because they might not want to spend their time in a world that focuses only on what they did't do.

Figure Skating attracts a lot of women. More than men from what I've seen in the arena. (The group I go with are about 2/3 gals; 1/3 guys.) Haven't a clue about their preferences besides skating. Women are not that much attracted to Boxing but they seem to love Pro Wrestling. Cosi Fan Tutti?

However, one who goes to the arena for figure skating should take note that many many women are leaving it.

Joe

When one thinks of a skating audience here in the states, it's largely women. The men there I bet are mostly boyfriends or husbands. Others may be gay.

Red Dog said:

When one thinks of a skating audience here in the states, it's largely women. The men there I bet are mostly boyfriends or husbands. Others may be gay.

Click to expand...

No gay women?

There are also a lot of families there. The Hughes boys are always there en masse If people haven't seen figure skating LIVE they really don't know who's there and who's not. Not unusual to see guys with their dates smooching in the upper tiers.

I think what I'm getting at is (correct me if you've seen this) it's highly unlikely that you might find a single guy (or a group of boys) as a single party at a skating competition. They might be there because of family or girlfriend/wife made them go.

There might be but by looking at the audience on TV, that's the *impression* I get.

Sorry. They are there. They are macho guys who like figure skating. The only thing valid on this thread is that there are more women in the arena than men. The fans or visitors to the arena cover the gamut of people in the US. A trip to Spokane is in order for those who speak about things they've never done.

Now a trip to Tokyo will show almost as much men as women at the arena. The men outside the USA, are more secure in their orientation than American men are. They are not afraid to be themselves wherever they go. They go and watch figure skating if it appeals to them and not worry about being seen there.

Well I suppose I'll take your word for it since you've actually been to a couple of them.

I can see arenas outside the US being more "balanced" gender-wise (since the culture is different). But here in the US the "macho image" is still very much alive and kicking. If there indeed are "macho men" that do like FS, they're likely keeping it to themselves to watch in their closet or under their bed or wherever.

oh yeah- I bet you those macho men only like Ladies.

Red Dog said:

.

oh yeah- I bet you those macho men only like Ladies.

Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with that.

Americans will come around and stop worrying about that sort of thing. They've learned to accept Blacks and Jews who, btw, are also in the fs arenas.

My wife doesn't care for figure skating at all. So I go to all the skating events with my sister-in-law.

As to which of the four disciplines, it depends on who's skating. I started out just liking Michelle. Then a few more of the ladies. Then a lot more. Then Sale and Pelletiere got me into pairs. Then I started liking a couple of the men. Then a lot of the men. Then some of the dancers. Then I started liking the competitions for their own sake.

I am a gay guy who likes figure skating but most of the guys I know who like it are straight, and there are just as many guys I know who like it as women. Although that being said alot of those guys are husbands or fathers of wives who follow skating or daughters who skate.

gio said:

What is femenine in FS? Jumping??? Spinning??? Expressing the character of the music??? Spread Eagles???

Sorry, I don't see nothing femenine nor masculine in those elements. It's just expressing ART.
Are all artist women or gay men? What a great stupidity!!!
Are all women that play basketball, baseball or i don't know which other sport gay women!!! Gimme a break!!!
In every sport, profession, family there are straight men and women and gay men and women. And I don't have nothing against it! Saying you should do FS because you are a girl and hockey because you are a boy is just STUPID STUPID STUPID!!

Excuse me for my explosion!

Click to expand...

Scusi, just saw your 'explosion' , and at least in basketball, many of the female players do appear to have lesbian tendencies, at least at some of this state's universities, that includes the coaches.
That doesn't mean that ALL girls who play basketball in the US like girls, but there certainly does eem to be a kind of a, umh, lean in that direction.
As for 'artists' - or those who would like to be - most of the female artists I know either like girls, or like both girls and very young men, or like no one.......
There's not very many 'straight' ones, come to think of it, at least none I've met.

Apologies for the double post, everyone! Hit 'post' too quickly, it's been a long day.....
At my arena, the only guys in the audience - such as it were - are (single?)dads whose little girls are on the ice.

As for the skaters, there's 3 young boys I know of who take figure skating - all of them related to 'rink people' - and something like 5 or 6 adult guys (myself included), 2 of them gay, 1 unknown, 2-3 straight.

The rest is all ladies, ages 3 - 70+, very unfortunately, there is a MASSIVE gap in the 20 - 40 age range, almost all of them are either under 15 or over 50.......which means that their 'orientation' isn't of very much interest to yours truly.....

There's some girls who take hockey, various ages there, too, and most of them seem pretty 'butch'.

Red Dog said:

When one thinks of a skating audience here in the states, it's largely women. The men there I bet are mostly boyfriends or husbands. Others may be gay.

Click to expand...

Audience makeup also depends on the event and the city. U.S. Nationals, a lot of fathers, granddads and boyfriends. Lots of families and kids, plus brothers and friends of the skaters, but I would still claim near 1/4 the adult men are gay (not a crticism or a complaint, just an observation). At Skate America this year not so many kids and families, but still a fair number. Also depends on the day of the week. Got to be able to get off from work or school to see a weekday event. At Skate Canada it was a much older audience. Victoria, I was told, is a big retirement town, so lots of retired couples during the weekdays. More families on the weekend, but still an older crowd even then. Europe and Asia, a much more balanced mix gender wise, but still skewed towards the women.

I was at a Christmas recital this evening at a local club. In the section behind me I counted 48 people, 10 guys -- dads grandfathers and brothers. In the next section about 5 men. So even at a club event only about 15% guys. It didn't surprise me. I've seen it befofre, but I still don't get it why so many dads can't be bothered to watch their little girl skate. It didn't start until 5 so getting there from work can't be an issue. What's up with that? And of 65 skaters, 4 were boys.

grossano - I understand your linking male gays paying to watch figure skating. Gay women are not apparently involved in this. Are they? I don't want a response about other sports.

Now that you make your opinion based on the stereotyping of those you see in the arena, the question begs you to finish your thoughts. Do you really believe it is gay men who are causing the decline in interest in figure skating?

Joe

gsrossano said:

And of 65 skaters, 4 were boys.

Click to expand...

It's interesting that with so few boys showing an interest in figure skating, still we manage to come up with a good group of competitors at the junior level. The top five seeds in the men's Junior Grand Prix final this year are U.S. skaters.

So are all the men / husbands or boyfriends who attend skating events there out of pressure or because they like skating?

Jhar55 said:

So are all the men / husbands or boyfriends who attend skating events there out of pressure or because they like skating?

Click to expand...

When I was a teenager, if you took your girlfrriend to the Ice Capades, that was a high class date. If you only took her bowling -- not so much.