Weir out of men's LP

pairfan said:

Don't really know if Johnny's really hurt or not but it seems he has other interests (modeling etc,) and skating isn't a priority anymore. I just wish that if his heart isn't in it anymore he would step aside and give someone else who's working and training hard a chance. I know there are skaters out there who would love the chance to be on the podium at Nationals.

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If that someone waiting in the wings is working their butt off and still can't beat a johnny who doesn't have skating as a priority anymore then they don't deserve to be on the podium full stop. This is a competitive sport after all , people don't step aside to let others through - if you want it, beat them.

I think Johnny's doing just fine - he's doing modelling etc now that he has a lot of exposure as an elite skater which is good - skaters reitre at what...mid to late 20's...he still has 40 years of a career to get in after that and he's made no bones about saying he likes the world of fashion. I think he's doing just fine.

Ant

slutskayafan21 said:

Unless Weir beat Lysacek at some cheesefest...

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Don't forget the Marshall's phone-in contest. Johnny got silver (Sasha gold), and Evan didn't make the podium.

they got medals at that event? :think:

antmanb said:

If that someone waiting in the wings is working their butt off and still can't beat a johnny who doesn't have skating as a priority anymore then they don't deserve to be on the podium full stop. This is a competitive sport after all , people don't step aside to let others through - if you want it, beat them.

I think Johnny's doing just fine - he's doing modelling etc now that he has a lot of exposure as an elite skater which is good - skaters reitre at what...mid to late 20's...he still has 40 years of a career to get in after that and he's made no bones about saying he likes the world of fashion. I think he's doing just fine.

Ant

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Read post #34

Johnny Weir

Why is it no one questions whether or not Evan is really injured? Evan was in a movie this summer and in the same tour as Johnny. Evan said in an interview in the current Skating Magazine that he's looking for an agent to get him more acting jobs. He's attending college to study acting and wants to model as well. Yet, no one is accusing Evan of not being a serious skater, just Johnny. Yes, internationally Evan has always beaten Johnny except at the 2001 Junior Worlds where Johnny beat Evan for the title. As a junior, Evan beat Johnny at the 2001 Junior Nationals but at the senior level, siince 2001, Johnny has placed in the top six at Nationals whereas Evan's first top five placement was in 2004. Also, realize that Johnny is skating with two new programs this year whereas Evan is still using the same long program from last year. Johnny could have kept his programs from last year but he chosed not to, maybe it was a mistake, maybe if he stayed in his comfort zone he would have won SC and COR, who knows but at least he took a chance. You have to give him credit for that.

Evan was in a movie? What movie was it? Has it come out yet?

pairfan said:

Read post #34

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Why?

The movie Evan was in was an independent film, he played an overweight, Russian skater who was an alcoholic. I can't remember all the details but I believe the information is on Evan's website.

momjudi said:

Johnny could have kept his programs from last year but he chosed not to, maybe it was a mistake, maybe if he stayed in his comfort zone he would have won SC and COR, who knows but at least he took a chance. You have to give him credit for that.

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Maybe Johnny could have won Skate Canada and Cup of Russia had he kept the same programs? You see it is people saying something like that which is what I dont understand about how people perceive Weir in a competitive light. Perhaps from an entertainment light he is one of your favorites, and we all have our own opinions and all. From a competitive light he is a second tier skater who is a level below guys like Lambiel, Joubert, up and coming Oda, an improved Takahashi, Buttle, and even Lysacek. He is in the start of the next tier after that group, but not at the level of that group. His competitive results this year are what one rational thinking should expect of him, they should not be cause for so much confusion and dissecting to what went wrong. He was 3rd at Skate Canada behind 2 skaters better then him, and 2nd at Cup of Russia behind a skater better then him. Where is the major subplot in that?

Did you even see Cup of Russia. Joubert scored a 160 in the long program with 3 quads. In the short program Joubert had mistakes and beat Johnny by several points with a clean skate. Joubert had the advantage of having a quad while Johnny did not but in the long he has the advantage of 3 quads to Johnny's none. Johnny's PB in the long is only a 146 or something like that. So the "maybe he could have won Cup of Russia" is where I dont really understand how people are seeing Johnny from a "competitive" aspect in a realistic light. Sure he could have won Skate Canada maybe if he stayed with old programs and was more comfortable but that is only because Lambiel and Takahashi made so many mistakes which would have allowed him that opportunity he would not have usually had against guys like that.

Johnny has never cracked a 150 in the long program. Lysacek has done it many times in the last 12 months. Buttle has done it. Lambiel, Takahashi, Oda, and Joubert have all cracked 160 at some point. He may be one of the most enjoyable skaters to alot of people from an "entertainment" or pleasing aspect, or personal favorite aspect. From a competitive aspect he is doing exactly what he should be doing, and the dissapointment factor and even confusion factor is caused by fans choosing to have an inflated expectation or perception of a guy who is about the 7th or 8th best skater in the world right now.

By the way I dont dislike Weir, I actually feel sorry for him since it seems people expect things that he hasnt shown are likely for him, and when he does not meet things that are not fair expectations people are critical of him and diss him. He should be praised as a very good skater who is 2nd best American man, and among 8 best men in World and not expected to beat people who have either shown they are better or are up and coming and surpassing a standard he has ever been at in a "competitive" sense anyway. People being deflated by 2nd and 3rd finishes in GP events to people who are either more accomplished in past years as well(Lambiel and Joubert)or up and comers surpassing his past standards(Takahashi)is not fair to him. People calling a 5th at the Olympics as a disaester when there are a group of a few skaters there he almost always has lost to, and a group of a few others he sometimes loses to is not fair to him either. For him that is a good result actually IMO, he finished over people like Joubert and Takahashi so for him that should be a success.

He can still be one of the most enjoyable and one of the most people like to watch and not be regarded as one of the best competitvely speaking.

momjudi said:

The movie Evan was in was an independent film, he played an overweight, Russian skater who was an alcoholic. I can't remember all the details but I believe the information is on Evan's website.

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Here it is!

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/winter/2006-11-07-lysacek-acting_x.htm?csp=34

Overweight? OK, I can see how he might be able to fake a Russian accent, but Mr. String Bean must have worked in a padded suit.

re: johnny weir

(Maybe Johnny could have won Skate Canada and Cup of Russia had he kept the same programs? You see it is people saying something like that which is what I dont understand about how people perceive Weir in a competitive light.)

What I am saying is that Johnny's scores this season have been the lowest he's had since CoP started. Even Paul Wylie has commented that the jumps in Johnny's new free skate program are placed in strange places, after extremely difficulty footwork, leaving no time to set up the jumps. As a result, Johnny has been doubling and singling jumps he has been doing successfully for ten years. The same jumps Johnny did effortlessly at Marshall's and in the exhibitions he's been in this year are the same ones he has been missing in competition. The only difference is no time to set up the jump. Had Johnny switched back to one of his older programs, updating the spins and footwork to satisfy 2006 CoP rules, perhaps he would have been more successful. Johnny happens to be a very talented skater, he taught himself how to do an axel in his basement on roller skates and then did one on the ice the first time wearing skates. It took him only a week to master each new jump he was taught, the only jump that has challenged him has been the quad. To see such low scores from such a talented skater makes you feel it is the program at fault, and not the skater.

momjudi said:

(Maybe Johnny could have won Skate Canada and Cup of Russia had he kept the same programs? You see it is people saying something like that which is what I dont understand about how people perceive Weir in a competitive light.)

What I am saying is that Johnny's scores this season have been the lowest he's had since CoP started. Even Paul Wylie has commented that the jumps in Johnny's new free skate program are placed in strange places, after extremely difficulty footwork, leaving no time to set up the jumps. As a result, Johnny has been doubling and singling jumps he has been doing successfully for ten years. The same jumps Johnny did effortlessly at Marshall's and in the exhibitions he's been in this year are the same ones he has been missing in competition. The only difference is no time to set up the jump. Had Johnny switched back to one of his older programs, updating the spins and footwork to satisfy 2006 CoP rules, perhaps he would have been more successful. Johnny happens to be a very talented skater, he taught himself how to do an axel in his basement on roller skates and then did one on the ice the first time wearing skates. It took him only a week to master each new jump he was taught, the only jump that has challenged him has been the quad. To see such low scores from such a talented skater makes you feel it is the program at fault, and not the skater.

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OK let's not get carried away here - the only jump he's struggled with is the quad? I think he spent quite a while trying to land his first competition triple axel, once he did it became fairly reliable for him but i don't think he snapped his fingers and got all his triples!

Ant

]OK let's not get carried away here - the only jump he's struggled with is the quad? I think he spent quite a while trying to land his first competition triple axel, once he did it became fairly reliable for him but i don't think he snapped his fingers and got all his triples!


I should have said the only jump he is struggling to learn now is the quad, he has mastered all his other jumps which is why it is puzzling that he is having trouble landing them now in competition.

temperboy28 said:

Could you explain to me how it is Weir is considered to have had an "extremely crappy" start to his year?

People seem to have unrealistic expectations of Weir. He is not one of the very best,.

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but he could and SHOULD be... I'm not even a fan and I recognize the talent. I can tell that he's very capable of making it higher than where he has been.

And just because he's hit the podium this season, it's not because of outstanding skates, he's not happy with them, and not very many people are either. He can and should do better, I don't know why he isn't. Maybe it's a mental thing, maybe physical, maybe a combination of both...

I think that expectations are set higher for Johnny because he says such great things about himself (i.e. Men's skating is boring...) It's a case of either do it already or be quiet.

Hsuhs said:

From:
http://www.answers.com/topic/michelle-kwan

2002-03 Season:

Kwan qualified with her win from Skate America but withdrew from the Grand Prix Series Final

2003-04 Season:

Kwan withdrew from both Skate America and Skate Canada

2004-05 Season:

Kwan withdrew from both Skate America and Skate Canada

2005-06 Season

Kwan did not compete in any major events in this season due to injury.

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In 2002/2003, MK had not committed to the Grand Prix. She skated SA as a favor to the ISU since the top ladies name (Sarah Hughes?) withdrew and ticket sales were poor. She had no plans to compete in anything other than Nationals and World's that year. She qualified with one win; I don't consider this a withdrawl due to injury.

As for 2003/2003 and 2004/2005, I recall a lot of speculation. A lot of people said she should skate to get the COP experience - especiallly during the 2nd pre-Olympic season. However, I don't think she was ever officially entered into any Grand Prix event. Again, she reduced her competitive schedule to preserve her body - not because she was too injured to skate. You have to be entered to actually withdraw.

2005/2006 was definitely not her year due to injury.