Four Continents -- who'll go?

There is a big cash prize incentive this year ($50,000 for first place) for the top scorers in the ISU world standings. The way it is set up, a skater pretty much has to do Euros or Four C's to outpoint the competition (and also do the Grand Prix and place well at worlds).

Do you think this incentive will be enough to entice the top North American and Asian skaters to compete at Four Continents this year?

Yu-na Kim is the leading lady so far.

It always depends on how skaters do at their nationals, of course, but I rather expect the Japanese federation to use Four Continents to once again decide their world team in ladies, which, should it happen, would stack the field. Rochette, who I'm guessing will win Canadians, may wish to have one more international under her belt before worlds, particularly considering how poorly she did in the LP at Eric Bomparde. I wouldn't bet on the top American girls. I have no idea if Kim will want to do another competition before worlds. She's got lots of momentum as it is.

In mens it will be interesting to see if Oda and Takahashi show. I imagine if Buttle is recovered enough from his fractured back (ouch) to skate at Canadians, he may wish to do at least one international comp before worlds. And I'm not entirely sure that Sandhu will take first or second place this season, and I can see the Canadian federation perhaps deciding on which men to send to Worlds by sending a number to Four Continents. The Americans Weir and Lysaceck could sure benefit from another international showing after having to pull out of the GPF — for confidence if nothing else, but of all the federations, the Americans tend to take Four Continents the least seriously.

In the past China has sent their top teams — this year? Who knows. I wouldn't count on I/B or M/B. I could see Dube/Davison going, however, since injury has kept them off the Grand Prix circuit and they may want to get their feet wet.

In dance I think it depends if D/L make any changes to their FD following the GPF. If they do make any major changes I can see them wanting to know how it's going to play in front of the judges. However, I can see Canada relying on sending up-and-comers V/M as the top team. B/A may wish to go to gain some confidence post-injury, and I can only imagine they're probably going to make some changes to their programs. If not, the Americans have some depth in dance now as well with G/P, M/Z, and D/W.

Absolutely not. The only skaters who will be helped will be those who don't go to Worlds, and they wouldn't be in the running for top scores anyway.

EITHER 4CC/Euros OR Worlds counts in the standings, but not both. So if Kimmie went to 4CC and Worlds, she would get the points only for Worlds, because the points for Worlds are higher than the points for the Regional championships.

Here are the points for Worlds vs. 4CC/Euros (place, Worlds, Euros/4CC)
1st-1200, 840
2nd-1150, 805
3rd-1100, 770
4th-1050, 735
5th-1000, 700
6th-950, 665
7th-900, 630
8th-850, 595
9th-800, 560
10th-750, 525
and so on, down to 24th place

So an 8th place at Worlds gets more points than a gold medal at Euros or 4CC.
The US offers the 4CC berths to the skaters and teams in order of their finish at Nationals. The top Pair and Ice dance teams have traditionally accepted the assignment, but the top singles skaters frequently decline, as 4CC comes right on the heels of Nationals and these skaters are now preparing for Worlds.

When a federation such as the US has depth in its skaters, it doesn't make much sense to send the top skaters to 4CC (especially if they don't want to go) because that deprives the newer skaters of a valuable experience.

Most top skaters from asia especially the Chinese team will probably send their B team since they usually send their top teams to go to the Asian winter games which is a week before 4CC.

chuckm said:

EITHER 4CC/Euros OR Worlds counts in the standings, but not both...

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Oh, that changes everything. I had thought (mistakenly, I now see) that you could get credit for both.

In that case, there is no new incentive for skaters to do Four Continents.

Maybe Themi and Naomi will go since they had only one international assignment this year. I'd like to see them get that extra experience ... I think they have so much potential.

And maybe a few US ice dance teams.

In fact, maybe the US should send all the skaters they can and hopefully win some medals ... since they could very easily be shut out of any medals at Worlds.

I think Rachel should not pass up the opportunity to go to 4CCs for the international experience since she will not go to Worlds whether on or off the US Nats podium.

I don't know if there is age restrictions for 4CCs

The US has a lot of former juniors both Men and Ladies who could also use this experience, and gain points to secure their place in next year's GPs.

I think it prudent for Nan/Leftheris to go for the experience. It will help them prepare for the Worlds.

As with the Singles, there are a number of Pairs and Dance teams coming into view. I think it is in their best interest to go.

Lastly, I hope all Countries send their young talented skaters to 4CC if the seasoned skaters want to skip it.

Joe

Joesitz said:

I think Rachel should not pass up the opportunity to go to 4CCs for the international experience since she will not go to Worlds whether on or off the US Nats podium.

I don't know if there is age restrictions for 4CCs

Joe

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I'm pretty sure the age restrictions in place are for ISU championships which means Worlds and Euros/4CC so if Rachel isn'g age elligible for worlds she won't be age elligible for 4CC either.

Ant

Joesitz said:

I think Rachel should not pass up the opportunity to go to 4CCs for the international experience since she will not go to Worlds whether on or off the US Nats podium.

I don't know if there is age restrictions for 4CCs

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Yes, there are -- same as for Olympics and Worlds -- and so Rachael (spelled with an 'ae') Flatt will be too young to compete at both 4CC and Worlds until the 2008-09 season.

Lastly, I hope all Countries send their young talented skaters to 4CC if the seasoned skaters want to skip it.

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The 2007 Asian Winter Games will take place in Changchun, China, Feb. 1-3 (the week before 4CC in Colorado Springs) and "spica" has posted at FSU that Fumie Suguri, Yukari Nakano, Aki Sawada (ladies), Takahiko Kozuka, Kensuke Nakaniwa (men) and Watanabe/ Kido (dance) are selected to go. We'll have to wait and see if Yu-Na Kim ends up competing in China rather than at 4CC.

The top Pairs and Ice Dance teams usually opt to go to 4CC, so the chances are good that NN/Leftheris will be there. B/A have gone to 4CC every year and probably will compete there this year, unless they are still working on their FD. Last season, G/P were ill and opted out, so M/Z got to go. This year, who knows who will go---it all depends on Nationals.

antmanb said:

I'm pretty sure the age restrictions in place are for ISU championships which means Worlds and Euros/4CC so if Rachel isn'g age elligible for worlds she won't be age elligible for 4CC either.

Ant

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Funny that Joesitz thought Flatt should "go" to 4CC. That is her backyard...literally. She trains at the CSWA in Colorado Springs. But as everyone has pointed out, she is too young for 4CC. What would the US roster look like for 4CC in any of the disciplines???? Is 4CC considered a warmup for Worlds or is the second tier of skaters from Nationals sent (those not going to Worlds). ?

Possibilities?
Men:
Bradley, Pennington, Smith, Abbott, Overett, Carriere
Ladies:
Taylor won last year, (okay...a question here...would USFS send competitors back to 4CC who have been there in the past)....Liang, Zukowski, Csziny, Hyatt, Oster, ????
Pairs:
Trent/Vise, ???
Dance:
Pratt/Gilles would have been a good choice here, but now that they have split????

I'm personally hoping to see the U.S. singles skaters' assignments spread out among 4CC, Junior Worlds and Worlds so that as many different skaters as possible get to compete at one of these Championships.

I agree. I'd like to see as many skaters get this experience as possible, especially the ones who haven't had the chance to get exposure.

Nigel said:

Funny that Joesitz thought Flatt should "go" to 4CC. That is her backyard...literally. She trains at the CSWA in Colorado Springs. But as everyone has pointed out, she is too young for 4CC. What would the US roster look like for 4CC in any of the disciplines???? Is 4CC considered a warmup for Worlds or is the second tier of skaters from Nationals sent (those not going to Worlds). ?

Possibilities?
Men:
Bradley, Pennington, Smith, Abbott, Overett, Carriere
Ladies:
Taylor won last year, (okay...a question here...would USFS send competitors back to 4CC who have been there in the past)....Liang, Zukowski, Csziny, Hyatt, Oster, ????
Pairs:
Trent/Vise, ???
Dance:
Pratt/Gilles would have been a good choice here, but now that they have split????

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I've been watching the Sectionals on IceNetwork, and Parker Pennington has improved so much from the first time I saw him at Atlanta Nationals. I like the idea of having young skaters get as much international experience as possible. Looked what happened to Taylor after her win. She is getting not only GPs but cheesfests.

The seasoned skaters can skip this unless they feel they need the points for the Standings.

Joe

Kim will be going to the Asian games. Of course, I wouldn't be shocked if they decide to send her to both!

blue dog said:

Kim will be going to the Asian games. Of course, I wouldn't be shocked if they decide to send her to both!

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They can't its only a week apart!

mylastduchess said:

They can't its only a week apart!

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This could mean a lot of points for whomever is the winner of 4CC. If it's an American she will be treated royally. But then, maybe Rochette will show up.

Joe

It seems to me that 4CC is a good way to earn points internationally so that skaters can rank higher on the ISU points list and have a better chance to be selected for two GP events next year. If you have already done very well on the GP circuit this year or at last year's Worlds, maybe you don't need to go to 4CC.

But if you are relatively new on the scene and have no international points to speak of yet(Nam/Leftheris) or have a disaster in your GP events (like Katy Taylor) you probably WANT to do 4CC to get experience before Worlds (N/L) or get your confidence back (Katy).

It will be interesting to see who Japan sends to 4CC. This competition could really be something if some of the top skaters show up.

Some skaters do not need the points to get 2 GPs if they live up to their reputations.

I don't know much about the Asian Games and whether there is a limit on who qualifies to go. (3 from each country, or more?) If Japan sends its top skaters: (Mao, Miki, Fumie) and they agree to go, it leaves Nakano and who else?

So for the 4CCs Japan may send at least one lady headliner.

There are budding good skaters in the Men's division should go.

Canada - should send Rochette, imo, for more experience with new programs.
Also Leung, and a toss up between Hawker and Duhamel should get a try at it.

Sandhu definitely to get his reputation back, Jeffrey because he's missed so much this year and this could be an opportunity to get out there and do it. Then there is Christopher, Nicolas and Sean - why not?

Mexico - Whomever they want and it would be great fun to see one on a podium.

United States - They've aleady have had two cheesefests so it is not all that important that the stars show up for 4CC. It would be nice to see Bebe and Alyssa there with Megan Oster, Megan Williams Stewart and Danielle Kahle. Is Taylor Firth a senior this year?

Let's forget about Evan and Johnny and have a look at Abbot, Carriere, Ratteree, Pennington, Rouse and Steenberg.

Anyone have their preferences?

Joe

It would be good experience for the up & coming skaters. I don't think this competition carries that much weight in terms of importance. If I were a World team member I would not go unless I needed the money. If Alissia misses the Word team I hope she gets to go. She is the type of skater that needs to keep skating in public. That would be good for Danielle Kahle also. Lets see Alissia, Danielle and Firth. That sounds like a good team on paper.

I don't think B & A will go. They need to rework that LP some more. I think they know that.