Ice dance query around Domnina&Shabalin's meteoric rise | Golden Skate

Ice dance query around Domnina&Shabalin's meteoric rise

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Ok so Domnina & Shabalin are becoming the next Russian ice dancing stars.

I don't watch much ice dancing so I really don't have a clue about them and my question is around their rapid rise to higher levels of ice dancing. Do people who follow ice dancing closely feel that they have really improved as much as their results show? I tend to only watch the Kerrs (because of national bias and because I have loved almost all of their programs) but because I've watched them I've tended to watch the rest of the skaters in their group. During the reign of Navka & Kostomarov, Dom&Sha were often in the same group as the Kerrs and seemed to be at a pretty similar level to them, albeit with slightly stronger basics. Since those times the kerrs have improved an awful lot and climbed steadily in the world and European rankings each season. Dom & Sha seemed to be progressing at a similar rate as the Kerrs. Suddenly Nav&Kos retire and Dom&Sha are leap frogging over skaters who have previously not been within reach like Delobel & Schoenfelder and now they're striking distance from Dubreuil & Lauzon.

So my question to the more knowledgeable is - have Dom&Sha really improved that much in one season or is there an element of Russian Politicking to get them boosted up so that Russia actually has an ice dance team that can compete for the podium at worlds. Have they improved so much more than the Kerrs?

What would the Kerrs have to do in terms of improvements to really start pushing towards being podium contenders? The move to Platov seems like a good start - training in the US where there is more visibility for them (compared to Murrayfield and Deeside!). Getting a good renowned Russian coach to mould them into the style of the Russians may help their placements on the world stage. Politically probably a good move to have a Russian coach too? Any thoughts?

Ant
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
When the Kerrs skated at their first Worlds in 2004, they were in 15th place, and DomShabs were in 10th (DomShabs had skated in their first Worlds in 2003, and were 15th). So right from the get-go, DomShabs were several places away from the Kerrs.

At 2005 Worlds, the Kerrs had moved up to 12th and the Kerrs to 8th.
At the Olympics, the Kerrs were 10th and DomShabs 9th, as two retired teams (D/V and F-P/M had returned).
At 2006 Worlds, the Kerrs were in 11th and DomShabs in 7th.

The only time the Kerrs were close behind DomShabs was the Olympics, but never that close at Worlds.

The Kerrs will probably make the lower half of the top ten this year, but you can probably expect DomShabs to be on the podium or 4th.

The reality is that politics still rules in ice dance. The Russian federation is very powerful when it comes to politics. I'm not sure a Russian coach would make a difference for the Kerrs.
 

Mafke

Medalist
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
I don't watch much ice dance but when I do I enjoy the French team a lot more than most other teams and from comments on people who do follow dance it seems I'm not the only one who thinks that. But they keep missing the podium and it seems the new Russian number ones are going to leap frog past them now.

In another thread there was a reference to some sort of back story with coaches that I don't know about, could anyone clarify just what's going on there?
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
There's no angst in D/L's program. If angst was a requirement, D/L should be well down the pike.
 

clairecloutier

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 27, 2003
I've wondered too about the sudden rise of Dom/Shabs. I have two thoughts about it.

1. I was really impressed with their programs and skating last season. At Olympics and Worlds, I felt they were definitely a cut above all the other second-ranked teams. It could be that other people had the same feeling, but it's only now starting to translate into better marks and placements.

2. I also do feel that the Russian Federation is partly responsible for their great results this year. Because otherwise, I can't account for them moving ahead of both Delobel/Schoenfelder *and* Belbin/Agosto. That's a big jump in the world of ice dance, and I feel like there's got to be some kind of political aspect to it. Not only that, but the second Russian team, Khoklova/Novitski, are also now getting placed more highly than before, for reasons that are unclear to me. It all points to some back-door deals.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
What it points to is that DomShabs are being primed to become the 2010 OGM winners, with Khokholova/Novitski on the podium as well. That is to make up for the fact that there probably will be no Russian medalists in Ladies, Pairs and Men (unless Plushenko is back---and that is far from certain).

I believe that DomShabs is already being poised to become the 2008 World Champions, and they will own that title as long as they choose to stay in the game. Teams like Dubreiul/Lauzon, who are staying in to win that elusive World Championship and OGM are deluded if they think they have any chance at all. Denkova/Staviiski are smart to move on after this season, and they are younger than D/L.
 

dfj

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 5, 2003
What it points to is that DomShabs are being primed to become the 2010 OGM winners, with Khokholova/Novitski on the podium as well. That is to make up for the fact that there probably will be no Russian medalists in Ladies, Pairs and Men (unless Plushenko is back---and that is far from certain).

If this is true, why do we watch this "sport"? And why does the dance world have to pay the price of no Russians winning in any other discipline?

2010 in Canada and V/M not vying for the podium? Ooooh...those Canadian dance fans will NOT be happy.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
V/M can vie for the remaining space on the podium (unless Russia #3 gets pushed hard as #1 and #2 are). They just won't have a shot at the top of it.
 

temperboy28

Match Penalty
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Somebody is a huge cynic. :laugh: Please dont paint the future of ice dance in such a grim predetermined light.
 

La Rhumba

Supporting All British Skaters!
Medalist
Joined
Aug 9, 2006
Country
United-Kingdom
When the Kerrs skated at their first Worlds in 2004, they were in 15th place,

2004 ~ 14th, World Championships, Dortmund Germany
2004 ~ 10th, European Championships, Budapest Hungary

2005 ~ 12th, World Championships, Moscow, Russia
2005 ~ 8th, European Championhips, Torino, Italy

2006 ~ 11th, World Championships, Canada
2006 ~ 10th, Winter Olympics, Torino, Italy
2006 ~ 8th, European Championships, Lyon, France
 

Wolfgang

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 9, 2006
Predetermined results and back room deals in figure skating???
Say t'ain't so !!!

It's only been like this from ..umh.....day 1......

I started watching this sport in the 1970's, when FS was just another front on which the Cold War was being waged.
Now we're a little less 'bloc'd' and a little more factionalized, but it's essentially the same thing.

I watch for the sake of the skating itself and pay only scant attention to scores or who wins and who doesn't, the medal/title distribution (sic) in FS will be at best questionable as long as this is a sport involving 'judges', and not determined by a clock.......
 
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rain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 29, 2003
I predicted as much the end of last year with the retirement of N/K.

Sadly, their rise is the result largely of being pushed up the standings because they are now the top Russian couple. They have improved some, and are a decent team, but not to the extent, IMO that they should be suddenly beating teams they were not in the same league with last year. I totally agree with the poster who said they are being primed this season to either hit the podium or be 4th. Next season they will be at least challenging for the gold. By 2009 they will be unbeatable, like N/K (unfairly) were in the couple of seasons leading up to the Olympics.This is politicking at its worst.

Their programs this season are nothing special, certainly not a wow situation that would account for their sudden elevation.
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
OK so asking another question then, because i'm sure the Kerrs and Dom/Sha have been in the same group for the Free dance before now, or only been one spot ahead - have the russians usually done much better in the FD than in the CD and OD? I'm sure i had read results that had them at aroudn the same place - perhaps they used to be up until the final round?

Ant
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Here are the hard facts (event, final placement, CD OD FD team)

2006 Europeans
6, 7 6 6 DomShabs
8, 8 9 7 Kerrs

2006 Olympics
9, 9 9 9 DomShabs
10, 11 11 13 Kerrs

2006 Worlds
7, 7 6 7 DomShabs
10, 12 11 9 Kerrs

2005 Europeans
6, 7 7 6 DomShabs
8, 8 9 8 Kerrs

2005 Worlds
8, 8 7 8 DomShabs
12, 12 11 13 Kerrs

2004 Europeans
7, 7 7 7 DomShabs
10, 12 10 10 Kerrs

2004 Worlds
10, 6 10 10 DomShabs
12, 8 14 14 Kerrs

It seems as if DomShabs' segment placements have been consistently close to their final placement while the Kerrs' fluctuate more.
 

nuge

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 22, 2003
I believe that DomShabs is already being poised to become the 2008 World Champions, and they will own that title as long as they choose to stay in the game. Teams like Dubreiul/Lauzon, who are staying in to win that elusive World Championship and OGM are deluded if they think they have any chance at all. Denkova/Staviiski are smart to move on after this season, and they are younger than D/L.

I agree .Dubreil /Lauzon should retire with Den/Stav after worlds because I think Domnina/Shabalin will be euro/world champs in 2008.
Even Chris Howarth said after their od last year .You are looking at the olympic champions .Not this time 2006' but in four years time .:unsure: Does he know something we don't know ?
The next big battle is going to be with D/S B/A and K/N .Who knows what's in store for Del/Shoenfelder .
 
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soogar

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
Dom Shabs were severely undermarked at the Olympics and Worlds compared to lower teams. There's no need to get pi$$ed because this team is finally getting its due.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
That's a matter of opinion, Soogar. I think they were appropriately marked in relation to the TOP teams last year. How they're being marked now is what makes no sense. Their marks keep going up and up, while at the same time, most of the top teams' marks are going down, for no apparent reason.
 

slutskayafan21

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 28, 2005
The judges may feel they improved that much. I dont see it, I think they have improved but not to the same degree the competition status seems to suggest.
 
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