Michelle Kwan - Year in Review

[emiC]

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Either one of us is wrong but no matter, it's a speculation. If you have read or heard one of them mention they were purely a coach-student relationship, then I agree you aren't speculating[/quote]

thanks for proving my case. Frank applies his principles to all his students, he has given enough public workshop on this matter.

Apache, you may keep on specuclating if it is fun for you. BTW, this debate has been fun to a point, and this is my last post on this particular one, maybe we will debate more on another topic. I mean another topic on Michelle of course

[ApacheApache]

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>
EmiC
thanks for proving my case. Frank applies his principles to all his students, he has given enough public workshop on this matter.
[/quote]

But that still doesn't in anyway imply Michelle never regarded him as a father, it only implies he regarded Michelle as a student. It doesn't have to be 2-way. Maybe I didn't phrase it correctly in my last post in which I had meant to say, unless you have read or heard from either Michelle or Frank that Michelle never regarded him as a father, you are actually speculating that she regarded him as just a coach.

As it seems it will never end, this shall be my last post on this issue here too.:lol: I had brought it up because I just wanted you to understand everyone speculates in one way or another including you (that's how I see it although you insist you didn't in your posts here). Anyway, thanks for your time for your responses.

[mathman444]

I have to go along with emiC on this one. Setting "speculation" aside, just type "Michelle Kwan father coach" into your search engine and you will get <em>thousands</em> of hits. I didn't read all thousands, but I just read quite a bunch. Over and over and over, without qualification or quibble, Michelle and members of Michelle's family are quoted in the following vein:

Michelle: I’ve always learned through my parents, through my family, that skating is just a sport.

Danny Kwan: I took Karen and Michelle and said, hey, this is your only sister, the only brother you have for life. And someday, when I’m not here, or when your mom’s not here, there is someone you can count on. So, you have to learn how to love each other.

All references to Frank Carroll -- page after page of them --are strictly skating. Frank says, about Michelle leaving his tutalage and about Danny Kwan stepping in as advisor and cheerleader during the 2001-2002 season,

"You know, you see Michelle with her father and you wonder if this is what they really always wanted. At the end, maybe this is the way they wanted it to be. Danny was always there with her. They were very, very close. I'm not going to be a bitter old man about it. I've been in the business so, so long that there are no surprises here for me."

Here's a link, among hundreds, that makes it very clear that Michelle was never confused about the distinction between "loving" skating and <strong>loving</strong> her family.

heatherw.com/mk/transcript/greenspan.htm

That is not to deny that young people look up to their teachers and coaches as authority figures. But -- idle speculation and silly mental meanderings aside -- there is not a peep of evidence that Michelle was ever in confusion about the difference between a coach and a father.

Mathman

[ApacheApache]

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>
Mathman:
That is not to deny that young people look up to their teachers and coaches as authority figures. But -- idle speculation and silly mental meanderings aside -- there is not a peep of evidence that Michelle was ever in confusion about the difference between a coach and a father.
[/quote]

I just needed to post again on this lest people misconstrue the real intent on my part regarding this issue. I think you too have misconstrued since you brought in the links and articles about Michelle and family and stuff, and I appreciate that.

The debate is not if Michelle had regarded Frank as her father. Side note: It is merely my idle speculation and I know perfectly well that I can be wrong. If I'm right I'm not excited.

The debate is all about speculation or psychoanalysis. EmiC has mentioned that she doesn't like speculation and she suggests people who do not do it. I respect her opinion, there's no right or wrong answer here. However having read her posts, I realise she has speculated on her part too, that's how I see it, I'm sorry EmiC if it's a wrong perception on my part but that's really how I see it. Hence the debate. I'm just trying to sound out to her that people speculate, everywhere, including herself without her realising it. That's all there is to it. It's not about Michelle and Frank and who's right about their relationship. Hope you and other posters understand. I appreciate you stepping in to help clarify things for me. :D

[emiC]

Apache,

In another thread I said, "It is an interesting topic for fun and speculation. BUT PLEASE leave the analysis of a skater's PSYCHE out." I was asking folks not to psychoanalze skaters.

I think we have different definitions for psychoanalysis, fantasy, speculation and drawing reasonable conclusions.

To me:

analyzing a skater's internal emotional conflicts, and motives etc is psychoanalysis, I believe you call that speculation.

To me when someone speculates without any evidence whateosever, that is fantasy. Sometimes fans psychoanalyze skaters base on pure fantasy. They do that all the time in literature/ fiction folders.

Some fans draw reasonable conclusions base on observation and evidence, e.g. Mathman drew a conclusion that Michelle has not regarded Frank as her "father".

Apache, at some we have to stop, I think we define <strong>speculation</strong> differently, this is absolutely my last post. in this thread.

[SkateFan4Life]

I just hope Michelle gets a solid triple/triple combination into her long program this season - assuming that she remains an eligible skater!

[rgirl181]

Hey Apache,
I've been away from the board for awhile and just now saw your posts on this thread. I'm sorry if some of my descriptions of Michelle's skating have been "driving you crazy":D --no psychoanalysis intended --but I really appreciate your questions. My time is rather limited right now but I will answer your questions as well as I can ASAP
Rgirl

[ApacheApache]

I agree EmiC, we have different opinions and it seems we can never agree with each other on this issue, I respect yours and hope you do mine too, I think you do. I never want to impose my thougths on anyone. Thanks for your responses.

Rgirl, great to hear from you!:D Take your own sweet time. I too can be away for a long period of time. The reason I've brought you into the picture is because your ideas of choreography really are driving me crazy. :lol: I don't how you are going to explain to me in layman terms the differences in her present and past body movement. Nevertheless, I appreciate your time for educating me. If it weren't for Michelle, I would never want to learn a thing or two about choreography or artistry. It's just not my cup of tea. I just want to enjoy and appreciate her programs on a higher level not just from a layman's perspective. I just need someone to fire ideas into my head, to provoke thoughts in me.:lol: One example is Taj mahal, initially I couldn't comprehend why Michelle fans gushed so much about the difficulty in that program. I started a thread on MKF to request someone help me appreciate Taj Mahal. Many came to my rescue and guess what, I have been watching that program with a totally different perspective since. Yes, I finally could appreciate that it was indeed a difficult program.

So no hurry, Rgirl, but if you really don't feel like talking about it, it's perfectly fine. Afterall, this is one layman who doesn't appreciate artistry generally. But I'm sure many GS readers would like you to share your thoughts. Thanks.:D

[shanilia]

Originally posted by SkateFan4Life
And how many of you think Michelle will retain her eligible status through the 2006 Winter Olympics? I fully expect to see her compete for one more try at an Olympic gold medal.

I agree with you.

I'm fully expecting Michelle Kwan to be at the 2006 Olympics. I'm also expecting her to win the gold medal and make all the "Third time's the charm," "Gold, silver, bronze she has it all!" headlines in newspapers worldwide.

Of al the skaters out there, Michelle's the only one who could make such dramatic news. That girl has a way of making history and BIG headlines. She's already made history in practically every major competition in figure skating; I wouldn't be surprised if she completed it with gold, silver, and bronze Olympic medals.

And it's pretty clear that Michelle shows no signs of slowing down. It's already 2003-2004 season, and 2006 is only 2 years away.