Who had the better jumping technique between Michelle Kwan and Sasha Cohen? I was reading on another board that Michelle had a leg wrap? :scratch: Granted it was a Sashafan board, but it made me wonder. So much has been said for Sasha's perfect technique, but I would have to disagree. I never saw Michelle wiht a legwrap and wonder if it was true? IMHO, I always thought Michelle's jumping technique was better than Sasha's. When Sasha jumped I got scared for her. HEr ankles seemed so weak ala Butryskaya's jumps wiht shaky, unsecure landings. What is your opinons and expertises? OH yeah and the fan cetnered boards are so funny and emotionally charged.
Who had the better jumping technique?
- Thread starter Fossi
- Start date
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
let's not rag on fan boards here, we are above that sort of thing...
and really, does it matter much who had the better technique? neither one is skating much these days... let's move forward! :yes:
and really, does it matter much who had the better technique? neither one is skating much these days... let's move forward! :yes:
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2004
Bute's problem wasn't weak ankles so much as it was stiff legs.
I never noticed Kwan with a wrap either.
As for the basic question, Kwan worked hard to get rid of her flutz and mostly succeeded most of the time, i never noticed much if any improvement in Cohen's.
Kwan's edges were far stronger than Cohen's and she had an overall better record of landing her jumps than Cohen did.
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2004
Michelle Kwan did. Why else do you think her jumps were so much more consistant over such a long span of time? Luck? No, its good technique. She did have a slight flutz but she worked hard to fix it, while Sasha has always had a severe flutz with no visible attempt to fix it. I never noticed any leg wrap in Michelle's jumps, I always thought she had a great in-air position. In that respect, I'd tie the ladies, as Sasha usually had a nice in-air position as well. Landings, Michelle has the edge there. Sasha's landing edges wobbled a lot, she sometimes even landed on the inside edge which is very wrong. Finally, Michelle was able to land 3-3 combinations in competition, not recently but she landed a lot more of them than Sasha did. How many 3-3s was Sasha able to pull off in competition? One that I can remember. Yes she has a 3-3 sequence, but that is easier and even then she sometimes struggled. Sasha has her good qualities, but her jumping is not high on the list.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
For me Bute's problems were her knees. I kept screaming at the TV "Pliet, Maria, Pliet". Had she done that, I think she would have been a greater force in figure skating.
Michelle had the better jumps; Sasha had the better spins. Over and out.
Joe
Michelle had the better jumps; Sasha had the better spins. Over and out.
Joe
I agree that ragging on the fanboards ins't nice. I didn't mean to rag on it but was just saying I read it on a sashafan board. THey are a guilty pleasure so I wounldn't rag on them
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2006
I didn't get the impression of any "ragging" coming from you Fossi. Acutely thought the point of validity was handled nicely by simply stating the source might not be often assumed as in MKs Favor. :agree:
I think if consistency of completion in competition is a part of technique then there is no question. And I think the power that MK had with the level of "elegance blended with athleticism" was remarkable.
And reveling in the past and reflecting and such I quite enjoy sometimes. Not only because I get a better idea of things that I have seen in the past with out the little knowledge I have now, but "reminiscing" is an everyday part of communication whether it is just a look back or analyzing. It is human nature.
There are a number of sayings reminding us to remember and discus the past. Maybe not exactly relative to this conversation but, "those who forget their past are doomed to repeat it." is one that comes to mind. I hope talk of all past and present skaters continues, sometimes the comparisons and such might be way out there, but enjoyable for some.
Hm...I don't pretend to have any knowlegde in this area, but....
I love Michelle's jump landings. I love the security, deep edges and how she would hold out an edge:
http://michellekwan.sexysportschicks.com/images/michelleskatedemovid.gif
At least she attempted to fix her flutz:
http://images-partners.google.com/images?q=tbn:yoxJSI9YxOfLeM:images.usatoday.com/sports
Sasha has beautiful air positions, with quick rotatiuons, a flat back and pointed toes. I feel she cou;d be more solid in her jump landings.
I think Michelle is better at toe jumps, and Sasha at edge jumps.
I love Michelle's jump landings. I love the security, deep edges and how she would hold out an edge:
http://michellekwan.sexysportschicks.com/images/michelleskatedemovid.gif
At least she attempted to fix her flutz:
http://images-partners.google.com/images?q=tbn:yoxJSI9YxOfLeM:images.usatoday.com/sports
Sasha has beautiful air positions, with quick rotatiuons, a flat back and pointed toes. I feel she cou;d be more solid in her jump landings.
I think Michelle is better at toe jumps, and Sasha at edge jumps.
I loved both skaters, but neither were incredibly impressive jumpers....aside from Kwan's record of landing them. Kwan's jumps were not terribly impressive in size or ice coverage, but she was incredibly consistent, which really made up for it, allowing her to gain advantage over other skaters who had amazing jumps — when they were on. Kwan did have lovely, secure landings. Neither Kwan nor Cohen had a very good lutz. Period.
Cohen at times had very shaky landings, but her speed of rotation and positions in the air etc., as all her positions when skating, were exquisite. Her landings, when she made them, always looked very light. Technique, I don't think, was generally her problem in whether or not she would land her jumps successfully.
Cohen at times had very shaky landings, but her speed of rotation and positions in the air etc., as all her positions when skating, were exquisite. Her landings, when she made them, always looked very light. Technique, I don't think, was generally her problem in whether or not she would land her jumps successfully.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Because the rest of Kwan's jumps were textbook? Because she worked very hard to eliminate the flutz, and at worst "flatzed" after she did, which made her equal to Slutskaya's attempts at proper lutz technique? Because, with the exception of the lutz takeoff, Kwan had excellent technique in all phases of her jumps? Because she has been one of the most consistent jumpers of the triples era?
Mao Asada? She doesn't do all six triples, and her flutz is as pronounced as Cohen's.
Midori Ito? Huge jumps, but horrible leg wrap.
Kimmie Meissner? Toe axels.
Julia Sebestyen, when she is on? Lip.
Your standards of perfection seem to be different when applied to Kwan.
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- Joined
- Feb 17, 2006
Both Michelle and Sasha had beautiful fluidity in their jumps. Michelle was more consistent in her jumps. Neither had great height or covered much ice, though I like them both.
Speaking of the past, I watched some old footage of Debi Thomas yesterday, and boy, could that girl jump!
Speaking of the past, I watched some old footage of Debi Thomas yesterday, and boy, could that girl jump!
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Watch YuNa on youtube.
Well if your looking for the "perfect jumper" good luck. There are so many ways to measure what we are calling "good jump technique." Are we considering technique for every jump? Are we considering jumpers who kept their technique over a long period of time? How about how many clean programs they skated? There are certainly skaters that stand out as incredible jumpers with the triple axel and difficult triple-triples. Neither Michelle or Sasha are in this group. Sasha's jumps were her nemisis - don't know how anyone can argue she had great jump technique when she fell so much. I am always amazed at Michelle's results. To have so many clean 7 triple programs over so long a period of time - with the only concern a minor flutz that she worked on to improve, well that's certainly one definition of someone with great jump technique.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Kathy = Actually, the best technical jump is in accordance with the definition of an element. Flow-in; proper take off - good air position and most of all, flow out so as to continue with the routine.
Imo, the best I've seen this season is Oda, YuNa,and Lambiel.
Joe
Imo, the best I've seen this season is Oda, YuNa,and Lambiel.
Joe
Michelle Kwan did look slower in the air and often had a leg wrap on the second part of her combinations (especially the 3 lutz 2toe). She also looked heavy going up into the air. Granted, she did have comfort and consistency. Her jumps never, however, awed me or made me clap my hands.
Sasha Cohen is so gorgeous over all. Her jumps have the most beautiful tight rotation I have ever seen. I distinctly remember in the 2000 nationals, Dick Button said "She belies the fact that you cannot point your toes while doing triple jumps." Her landings may not be as softkneed as some others, but her positions are so beautiful.
Sasha Cohen is so gorgeous over all. Her jumps have the most beautiful tight rotation I have ever seen. I distinctly remember in the 2000 nationals, Dick Button said "She belies the fact that you cannot point your toes while doing triple jumps." Her landings may not be as softkneed as some others, but her positions are so beautiful.
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