Can someone please explain edging to me? | Golden Skate

Can someone please explain edging to me?

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
skaters get more power if they're on the edge of the blade as opposed to the flat....

after that I can't explain it, but that was the definition that I remember from Kristi's book for dummies lol
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Go forward on the right skate and make a circle. That's a forward outside edge. Now without changing your position go forward on the left skate and make a circle. That's a forward inside edge.

Back edges are the same except one skates backwards on outside and inside to fom the circles.

A serpentine is going forward for a half circle and change to another circle. that's a change of edge from outside to inside. One can also do a change of edge starting out on an inside edge for half a circle and change to outside.

Similarly, back edges are the same except one skates backwards to make the serpentinesl.

One needs good leaning body positions and especially the pressure one has to put on the skating foot.

Adding 3 turn, brackets, rockers and counters form the basics.

I don't know about twizzles. they weren't around in my hayday.

Joe
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
What exactly is it?

What context are you referring to?

"Edging" isn't really an official term, but it can be used colloquially to refer to edge quality* or just using the edges of the blade at all as opposed to skating in straight lines, and including more complicated moves using the blade edges, such as turns and changes of edge.

But first, do you need an explanation of what the edges are? Does Joesitz's post make sense to you or would an even more basic breakdown be useful?

Are there pics that demonstrate good edging from bad?

We could find pictures that demonstrate deep edges (skaters leaning over their blades at a more acute angle) vs. shallow (more upright blades), but you really can't tell the quality of the movement across the ice from still pictures.

*When I think of edge quality, I think of it including things like
-how deeply the skater is leaning over the edge of the blade
-how curved the path s/he's traveling is
-how controlled and smooth the curves are
-how much power the skater gets from each push
-what part of the blade the skater is pushing from and what part s/he's gliding on
-how quiet the blades are on the ice and what kinds of sounds they make when they do make sound
-how fluid or flowing the skater's movement across the ice is
-how effortlessly they appear to glide

Often if people say a skater has "good edging" they mean that the skater does all those things well.
 

dlkksk8fan

Medalist
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
The blade on each skate has two edges, with a hallow in between them. Each edge is sharp allowing the skater to grip the ice securely when the body is aligned right. In the olden days of school figures, only one edge of the blades were allowed to touch the ice. If you skated "flat" that meant you were skating on both edges, not good.

Footwork, spirals and jumps all call for use of a single edge. Brain Boitano has beautiful edges, especially his spread eagles. Michelle Kwan's spirals were always on a beautiful edge inside and out.

The skate edge on the outer side is called an outside edge and the edge between the feet is called and inside edge.
 

SeaniBu

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 19, 2006
The blade on each skate has two edges, with a hallow in between them.

I don't know how many would agree with this, but I see a blade as having 4 - front and rear are also included and I don't see them as being the same because you can't skate on the front and the back of the blade simultaneously. Granted it is one edge per side but...?
 
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JonnyCoop

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2003
If you look at "action photos" of skaters from the 50s and 60s, you'll often notice that they have rather an extreme "lean" going on and yet remain in motion, as opposed to falling on their side. This is an example. The best example of this kind of thing I can come up with is the "hydroblading" that Shae-Lynn & Vic used to do. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

The best example of "bad edging", if any edging was going on at all, would be to look at Surya Bonaly's programs from the late 80s/early 90s (if not her entire career). Notice how she seems to be rather "lumbering about" out there; that's because she's not skating on an edge, she's skating on the "flat" with both edges on the ice at once. Definite no-no, tho, hey, she got 5 Euro titles despite it, so who am I to judge???:sheesh: :sheesh:
 

julietvalcouer

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 10, 2005
Mechanically, a skate blade has two edges, left and right. In kinetic terms, there are forward inside, forward outside, back inside, back outside. (If you want, break that down further into right and left for each.) You push more effectively from an edge, you turn on edges, basically everything in figure skating is properly done on an edge, not on the flat.
 

dlkksk8fan

Medalist
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I don't know how many would agree with this, but I see a blade as having 4 - front and rear are also included and I don't see them as being the same because you can't skate on the front and the back of the blade simultaneously. Granted it is one edge per side but...?

Seanibu- that's an interesting concept, the blade having four edges. But I can assure you that the blade has only two edges. You don't want to skate on the rear of the blade because what happens is that you fall. Leaning too far back is not a good idea. Besides having two edges a figure blade is curved from the front to the back. This is called the radius or rocker.

Power and glide across the ice fundamentally derives from efficient use of the edges to generate speed.
 

dlkksk8fan

Medalist
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Mathmann if you look at the line on the ice from Michelle's blade you can see it is only one line and not two. She is on the right outside edge.
 

SeaniBu

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 19, 2006
Besides having two edges a figure blade is curved from the front to the back. This is called the radius or rocker.
.

That is precisely what I am saying.:agree: The front and rear of the curve. I understood in "reality and all":laugh: just the way I think of it. JVC explained it well.
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
This is a wonderfully informative thread. I am usually too embarrassed to ask such basic questions, so thanks to Johar as well as those who wrote such good replies. They are so informative and complementary - an example of Goldenskate teamwork. :rock:
 

indicatoto101

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 30, 2006
Thanks guys, very informative. Everytime someone brought up edging, I was confused, but everything makes sense now.:thumbsup:
 

Mafke

Medalist
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
Front and back edges refer to whether the skater is skating forwards or backwards and not parts of the blades as such.

Another way to look at it. Skaters are supposed to usually be skating in curving, not straight, lines. The curve might be shallow or deep but it's supposed to be there.

Now, imagine you're skating forward on your right foot. If the curve is to your right, your free (in this case left) leg is on the outside of the circle, this is a RFO (right front outside) edge. If the curve is to your left, your free leg is _inside_ the circle this is a RFI (right front inside) edge.

Edges are defined by three parameters:

right - skating on the right foot
left - skating on the left foot

front - going forwards
back - going backwards

inside - free leg is inside the curve (this is a quick way to identify the edge but isn't really the way it's defined technically)
outside - free leg is outside the curve

This way, there's a total of eight edges:

RFO
RFI
RBO
RBI
LFO
LFI
LBO
LBI

Edges are important because ... they are the foundation of skating (gliding on the ice). When a skater is on the 'sweet spot' of the blade maintaining the edge seems to generate its own power while making virtually no sound (besides a gentle kind of hiss).

There are four kinds of turns that skaters do on one foot that can be divided into two groups:

turns on the lobe (another word for the curved movement), in these the skater changes direction (F to B or B to F) and edge (O to I or I to O). there are two kinds.
three - turns _into_ the lobe
bracket (much harder) - turns _away from_ the lobe

turns between lobes. This means the skater goes (for example) from skating a curve (lobe) to the right to the left at the point where the two curves meet in the skater turns direction (F to B or B to F) but maintains the same edge (O or I)
rocker - turns into the first lobe, begins like a three and ends like a bracket
counter - turns into the second lobe, begins like a bracket and ends like a three.

Edges are also important because jumps are defined by the edge the skater has going into the jump (in theory).
For a 'right footed' skater (who lands jumps on their right foot and is most comfortable skating in a counter-clockwise direction)
axel - LFO
loop - RBO
toe-loop RBOwith an assist from the left foot
salchow - LBI
flip - LBI with an assist from the right foot
lutz - LBO with an assist from the right foot
for all of these jumps the skater lands on the RBO edge

I say in theory because young skaters don't often have a feel for edges and have trouble controlling them (unless they are leaning deeply into the edge with their whole body and sometimes even then). Ideally the edge is controlled from the ankle down and can be maintained no matter what the upper body is doing, but few younger (or older) elite skaters can really do that anymore.

Instead, younger skaters tend to define jumps from the 'approach' the traditional purpose of which is to get them onto the right edge. Many, many, many young skaters doing a 'lutz' cannot properly hold the LBO edge (going in a clockwise direction) and then jumping in a counter-clockwise direction. As they anticipate the counter-clockwise jump they slip off the LBO edge into the much more natural LBI edge. Look at videos of Sarah Hughes there was always a big (backwards) S on the ice where she changed edge too soon. Technically this meant her lutz was a flip, this kind of botched lutz is called a flutz. The modern tendency is for judges to not pay attention to flutzes and define the jump the way inexperienced skaters do, by the 'approach'.
Another problem is a 'lip' where instead of a three turn (a common way of approaching a flip, the skater over rotates and ends up doing a rocker and is on the outside rather than the inside edge. This is harder to spot, but Shizuka Arakawa (among some others) has a habit of doing that.
 

BBI*CEO

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Great explanations, everyone! I always feel each edge (inside or outside on either foot) as having various regions upon which you can execute a given move, at least two regions each on the forward balance point (under the rear of the ball of the foot) and the back balance point (under the front part of the heel) - which would explain Seanibu's concept of "4 edges". These are the balance points upon which various turns happen.

As a rule, turns executed from skating forward to skating backward occur on the forward balance point, with the skater's weight shifting there from the other part of the blade for the turn, and remaining thereabouts following the turn. Conversely, turns executed from skating backward to skating forward occur on the back balance point, with the skaters weight shifting to that point on the blade for the turn, and remaining there following the turn. This technique helps "set" the exit edge as you sink your knees back down to complete the turn.

For those who are willing to try on the ice: see if you can do a back outside 3-turn with your weight on the wrong part of the blade (ie the forward balance point). It won't go. It just won't! Therefore, do a back outside edge and let your weight balance comfortably under the ball of your foot - NOW ROCK gently and not too overboard to the back balance point - and the turn happens! PHYSICS!

I have taught students who have never done one-foot turns how to do all 32 turns in a super short period of time once they understand blade technique.

So in summary, good edges are curvy and deep and clear, don't rock over to the wrong side and shouldn't look straight or flat. Compare various ice dance teams and see how much controlled variation and amplitude of curvature you can notice - all combined with interesting choreo! Then you can carry your knowledge to pairs/singles skating for jump technique. HAVE FUN! :agree:
 

dlkksk8fan

Medalist
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
This way, there's a total of eight edges:

RFO
RFI
RBO
RBI
LFO
LFI
LBO
LBI

Seanibu- when it says RFO it means that you are traveling forward on a outside edge. When it says RBO it means you are traveling backward on a outside edge. It doens't mean forward part of blade or back part of blade. There are still only two edges to each blade. Just making sure you understand this;)
 

SeaniBu

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 19, 2006
Seanibu- when it says RFO it means that you are traveling forward on a outside edge. When it says RBO it means you are traveling backward on a outside edge. It doens't mean forward part of blade or back part of blade. There are still only two edges to each blade. Just making sure you understand this;)

I fully understand. It must be my fault the way I am wording it, but the way I think of a blade and the actual physical components may differ in explanation. I think more of the blade and how I use (well that is debatable:laugh: ) it skating rather then the the physical structure. I guess I am adding unnecessary confusion.:yes: sorry.
 
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