CNN Journalist Speaks Openly for First Time

CNN Journalist Speaks Openly for First Time

The following is an article written by Eason Jordan of CNN, who is breaking his silence about what he has witnessed over the past 12 years in Iraq. I have a feeling we're going to see a lot more of this coming out in the days ahead.

I found it particularly interesting, considering CNN is one of the more objective news networks (quite honestly it's one of the more liberal networks out there - my estranged other half works there, and even he admits that CNN has a much more liberal agenda than many networks).

CNNer Speaks Out

Any thoughts?

Re: CNN Journalist Speaks Openly for First Time

Sk8cynic, thanks for the story (I guess???). What can anyone say?

Dee

THANK YOU

I am a veteran of the US Air Force, who spent four months in Bahrain during Desert Storm...I have been constantly supportive of our actions in Iraq, and have been verbally assaulted by people who think I'm a "warmoger" and "babykiller"....I've even been told that Bush is as much a madman and murderer as Saddam (never quite understood THAT one).....Anyway, at the risk of being slammed again, I wanted to thank you for posting that article. Yes, there will be two sides to every story, and yes, there will remain Saddam loyalists and people who will continue to believe and report that Iraq was Eden.....I'm just glad to see what APPEARS to be the truth coming out more and more.

Kasey

Re: THANK YOU

Kasey,

My cousin was part of the first wave of the ground assault of ODS, and an boyfriend from back then was part of the force that initially went into Kuwait City. Both of them returned incredibly disturbed by what they witnessed - not just what happened when they went in, but also the aftermath of the atrocities committed.

I, too, am appalled by anyone that can liken Bush with Hussein. There's just no comparing the two. Like you, I have been called a war-monger, baby killer, a Republican Facist (which I find hilarious as I have yet to vote anything but Democratic), a traitor to the Democratic party, and the piece de resistance - a graduate of the Hitler School of Diplomacy (I'm Jewish). Of course, most of the people who christened me with these monikers were not only anti-war advocates, but people who are still pissed about the 2000 election, so as a whole, I consider the source and shrug it off.

THANK YOU Cynic

It was starting to seem that anywhere I went, whether in "real life" or on the internet....I was starting to feel really like I was one of the few with the beliefs I have...not that it made me change them or second guess them...just kind of a lonely thing!

Re: THANK YOU Cynic

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>It was starting to seem that anywhere I went, whether in "real life" or on the internet....I was starting to feel really like I was one of the few with the beliefs I have...not that it made me change them or second guess them...just kind of a lonely thing! [/quote]

We're hardly alone.....according to a Washington Post poll this past Tuesday (before Baghdad fell, mind you), approval for OIF was at 76%, and the 45-54 demographic (the Vietnam era demographic, mind you) clocked in at an amazing 87%.

As you probably are aware, I was rather alone here for a while in voicing support for what we are doing. That's changed over the recent weeks, which curled my toes . Though it got heated at times, the members here accept that there are passionate differences of opinion and agree to disagree, for the most part. That's one of the many reasons I call GS my home forum.

-Cyn

Re: THANK YOU Cynic

It is true many of the posters are anti-war; anti-killing; anti-maming.

Unless one has actually been in a war watching the horrific acts which take place among comrades, colleagues, enemies, property, etc. one may not be able to understand the anti-war sentiment that one half of the country has grasped. Supporting the military has nothing to do with being anti-war.

On the other hand, if one has not been in a war, then one can truly sing the broadway show: "Oh What A Lovely War".

If anyone is interested in WAR, there are many sites on the net in many forums regarding those who support the killings and those who want peace. Check em out and come back to warfree figure skating.

Joe

Re: THANK YOU Cynic

I have not joined in any previous discussion on this topic, but I will briefly chime in. I lived in the middle east for over six years (Israel) and my husband just came back from a brief stay. Upon arrival, a relative gave him a gas mask. My friends have fitted their children (babies included) with gas masks. I thought 9/11 would awaken Americans to the REALITY of fanatic, lunatic behavior in the region and to what lengths those with an agenda to kill will go in order to destroy Western civilization as we know it. Apparently, I was wrong. Memories are short. Most Americans just don't "get it". Saddam dropped chemical weapons on his OWN people; he lived in gilded palaces while a large percentage of his people starved. He knew no bounds with regards to harming his own people--it was only a matter of time before he turned his weaponry on the West. If you don't believe it, you are naive.

Westerners always believe that everything can be solved with diplomacy. Unfortunately, this is a falacy; because in order for this to be true, both sides need to believe in the institution of diplomacy. Regimes such as Saddam's or Bin Laden's do not believe (and probably do not understand) this concept. They know only force--unfortunately, the only solution is to use force back--or first.

I believe in peace and goodness and kindness and wish that these were universal objectives--but they are not. Westerners need to realize that the mentality of many others in this world are completely different from their own--their very thought processes differ so radically from our own that in our lifetime, we could not understand it. Try to understand the mentality of someone who is willing to blow himself up just to blow up others. Imagine the thought process of someone willing to steer a plane directly into the World Trade Center, turning himself into a human bomb. Sure, Americans have committed terrorism (think Oklahoma City) but did you notice that they make sure NOT to kill themselves in the process?

Remember when the world condemned Israel for bombing the nuclear reactor in Iraq? It doesn't look so bad now, does it? I wonder how many lives that action actually saved in the long run?

As a friend of mine recently said (former U.S. armed services): Everyone believes in peace until a gun is shoved into his face. I ask: Do we have to wait before we're annhialated before we realize that sometimes a first strike is the only course against someone who is anxious to turn us into dust? What scares me is the fact that Saddam is not the only one with that agenda, nor is he the only madman with the capability to carry it out.

Re: THANK YOU Cynic

Applause Applause Realtor Gal!!!!

I don't think you could have stated that more eloquently.

Well, here we go again. Brace yourself for the third-verse-same-as-the-first knee jerk response rhetoric of the anti-war agenda.

Re: THANK YOU Cynic

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Unless one has actually been in a war watching the horrific acts which take place among comrades, colleagues, enemies, property, etc. one may not be able to understand the anti-war sentiment that one half of the country has grasped.[/quote]

Um, Joe, exactly what country are you referring to? Hate to break the news, but the U.S. ain't divided in half on this issue. Conservatively, it's more like 75% in support of OIF, 25% in opposition.

Perhaps it's more along the lines of half in support of Bush back in '02, and half (or a fraction less) in support of Gore.

Oh, and once again, for the record, I am for peace. You and just differ on the approach of getting there.

Re: THANK YOU Cynic

The war gets a lot of US press and it uses the "support our military" as a gimmick to make the anti war people look like traitors. Bullshit. When the polls show most Americans are against war, the polls drop out of sight as soon as they are reported.

It's a sad state of affairs that some Americans see war as the answer to world's problems. Intelligence has been pushed aside for brawn. Goliath is winning the world.

BTW, I fought in a war in Korea. I know war. It's not fun and games as the no nothings seem to believe.

Joe

Re: THANK YOU Cynic

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>If anyone is interested in WAR, there are many sites on the net in many forums regarding those who support the killings and those who want peace. Check em out and come back to warfree figure skating.[/quote]
Is that an invitation to leave? Or is it a strong hint that we shouldn't be discussing this, even though it's in off-topic?

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>It is true many of the posters are anti-war; anti-killing; anti-maming.

Unless one has actually been in a war watching the horrific acts which take place among comrades, colleagues, enemies, property, etc. one may not be able to understand the anti-war sentiment that one half of the country has grasped. Supporting the military has nothing to do with being anti-war.

On the other hand, if one has not been in a war, then one can truly sing the broadway show: "Oh What A Lovely War". [/quote]

Once again, I fear you have confused supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom with a desire for bloodlust. Just ain't so. I realize I didn't serve in the military (though I did go through the whole MEPS process back in '92; didn't make the cut due to vision issues), but I have heard several firsthand accounts from family members (my grandfather served in the Phillipines in WWII, my other grandfather fought in Korea, just as you did, my ex-husband fought in Vietnam, plus 4 first cousins that all served in the military, one of whom served in ODS) as to many of the horrors that happen. Factor that in with the fact that I was travelling in the Middle East during some very tense times - nothing like staying at a hotel that has military posted at every entrance and exit, not knowing if the next bus you get on is going to blow up, and I think I have at the very least a good grasp on the fact that war is not glamorous or glorious, but at times is necessary.

It's foolishly naive to think that by sitting world leaders down around a campfire and singing a few verses of Kumbaya, resolution, disarmament, and regime change will occur without conflict. Once again, the UN had 12 years to deal with it, and, like my old sig line said, they were about as effective as a traffic cop on valium at enforcing the resolutions they passed.

Tell me, if Britain had decided to go it alone and the US abstained from any military action, would you be screaming in protest with the same amount of zeal? The answer had better be yes, otherwise it helps make the case that your opposition is less about the carnage of war and more about your distaste for the Bush administration.

As for the senseless killing, maiming, carnage, and bloodshed:

Where are the tens of thousands of civilian casualties?
Where are the thousands of body bags returning home?

Seems to me the only side that has killed thousands of civilians is the regime you feel we have no business removing from power.

This number of US military personnel killed in action as of Frday was two more than were killed in Warwick, RI in February, less if you choose not to count non-combat fatalities. If your concern is truly over senseless killing et al, why weren't you angered and vocally outraged over the tragic, preventable loss of life in that fire?

I don't understand how someone who claims to be concerned about protecting the lives of innocent civilians can be so selective about applying that belief. To put it in a much smaller context, if the government has no business getting involved in a matter that doesn't directly concern them, I guess then that the cops should stay out of domestic violence issues until blood is spilled on the neighbors lawn.

You're entitled to your beliefs, Joe, just as I am entitled to mine. I am genuinely trying to understand your stance on this issue, but I am confused by inconsistencies, and as a result of that confusion I cannot help but feel that the axe you have to grind is not about the war with Iraq but rather your personal war with the Bush administration.

Re: THANK YOU Cynic

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>It was starting to seem that anywhere I went, whether in "real life" or on the internet....I was starting to feel really like I was one of the few with the beliefs I have...not that it made me change them or second guess them...just kind of a lonely thing![/quote]No, you're not alone. There are quite a few of us on the skating boards, but many who hold our views are afraid to express them, because of some peace people's hyperbolic propaganda.<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>When the polls show most Americans are against war, the polls drop out of sight as soon as they are reported.[/quote] I don't remember any polls that showed most Americans were against the war. Yes, most Americans at first didn't want to go into Iraq without UN backing. But, right before the war started, polls showed that a majority of Americans supported the war, beacuse, I think, many people had had it with the UN's procrastination.

Right now, the polls show that over 70% of the US population is now supporting Bush's Iraq policy. Even in my state Of California, the most Liberal in the country, over 60% are now supporting the war. All polls have a margin of error, but only something like 5%.<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>It's a sad state of affairs that some Americans see war as the answer to world's problems. Intelligence has been pushed aside for brawn. Goliath is winning the world.[/quote]Since the fall of Saddam, there have been spontaneous celebrations by Iraqis in Iraq and in the US. So, I think most Iraqis see war as the answer to their problems as well.

Have Brits like Tony Blair and Winston Churchill's grandson also "pushed aside intelligence"?

Re: THANK YOU Cynic

From the UN Charter:

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>We, the peoples of the United Nations, determined to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, which twice in our lifetime has brought untold sorrow to mankind, and to reaffirm faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person, in the equal right of men and women and of nations large and small.......And for these ends to practice tolerance and live toegether in peace with one another as good neighbors.......have resolved to combine these efforts to accomplish our aims.[/quote]

It seems the UN's attempt to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war is being done at the cost of dissolving that faith in fundamental human rights. A little naive and idealistic on the part of the UN, I'm afraid.

Re: THANK YOU Cynic

"If anyone is interested in WAR, there are many sites on the net in many forums regarding those who support the killings and those who want peace. Check em out and come back to warfree figure skating."


Is this a statement of intolerance? That anything controversial, anything to do with the United States' military actions is NOT welcome here, even though this IS the "Off Topic" forum? Pardon me, but I am still fairly new here...and up until just now, I was appreciating the fact that this place was supportive and respectful, even to those of opposing views. Several people even welcomed me here as a newcomer. Perhaps I did not realize that my thoughts and words would have to remain censored at THIS forum as well.


"BTW, I fought in a war in Korea. I know war. It's not fun and games as the no nothings seem to believe."


Pardon me AGAIN. I spent four months active duty, in the Persian Gulf during Operation Desert Storm. I was awarded a bronze star for my efforts over there....you Joesitz, being a veteran, MIGHT understand the implications of that medal. How "fun and games" do you think MY time over there was?? I am NOT some "no nothing"...and I am STILL in full support of this military action and the reasons behind it. Call me stupid. Call me delusional. Call me a victim of our government conspiracy. Whatever. That's fine. I'm sure I could come up with some things to say about you as well.

And, are you also implying that, if you have NOT fought in a war, that you don't have a right to an opinion on this?? Because if so, that can translate into a number of other scenarios. If a person has no children, obviously they can not intervene if they see a parent beating their child in the store. A MAN can't possibly have an opinion on abortion. If you've never been the victim of a crime, you can't speak about our legal system....if you don't vote, you can't speak about our government. Forgive me, but I was under the impression that this country we lived in was the United States of America, and that we had such freedoms to guarantee a person to hold an opinion on ANYTHING, regardless of how stupid it may be. Our lovely Bill of Rights also allows us the liberties to voice those opinions, and to assemble with others who share those opinions.

I don't recall seeing any anti-war protesters denied those rights, until they started blocking streets, not allowing emergency vehicles through, and attacking innocent people attempting to get to work. Perhaps the government and media conspiracy kept that video which showed the protesters attacked with tear gas and attack dogs simply for stating their views. I'll have to ask Mulder and Scully to look into that.

Kasey

ONE MORE THING

Letter from an Iraqi-American

All, Before anybody decides to go out and join more protests, maybe it would be fair to provide an alternate view. I, as you may have gleaned, am an Iraqi-American. Actually Assyrian-Iraqi-American. Most of my family was in Baghdad during the first Gulf War--some were in Kuwait. My aunt Margaret tells me that during that war, they would wait until night and go sit on the rooftops and cheer the bombing. The American attacks were so concise, she said that they would bet on which government or utilities building would be hit, and were more often than not correct. Civilian targets were always accidental. Think about it: what military objective would be served by hitting a civilian hospital, when the opposing army is surrendering en masse (not fighting and getting injured)?

For the last six months on al-Jazeera television, Iraqi defectors have been appearing on talk shows begging--literally, begging--the other Arab nations to support the US in this war, to finally free the Iraqi people. Without fail, their counterparts from other nations stated that they preferred Hussein to the USA.

Here are some figures. Since taking power officially in 1978 (although he was the functional leader since 1971), Hussein has executed somewhere in the range of 3m political prisoners. He launched chemical weapons against Assyrians and Kurds in the North. He drained the marshes in the south, which the Shi'ites need to survive, causing a "famine-on-purpose" in the style of what Stalin did to Ukraine in the 30s. Every day in Iraq, 2,500 children die from malnutrition and lack of medicine, because Hussein has been kicking out UN (not US) inspectors for 11 years. Two thousand five hundred children die every day. So do not dare, for one instant, to protest this war on behalf of the Iraqi people. To do so is to spit in the face of the millions of people who yearn for freedom from his regime. Hussein is not Castro.

Uday Hussein, his son, is the head of athletics in Iraq. He owns a football club. For years, whenever they wouldn't perform to expectations, he would bring them to his personal prison and torture them ruthlessly. He maintained a harem of hundreds of women whom he would rape, defile, and murder. The few hundred Iraqi civilians who may die in the bombing raids are a pittance compared to the millions Hussein has killed as well as the appalling number of children who die every day due to his arms program stubborn-ness. How many more can die so a bunch of addle-brained do-gooders can get on TV waving placards?

It is hypocritical and worse irrational to oppose this war on behalf of the Iraqi people. They don't know the desires of the Iraqi people, or the apalling suffering of the Iraqi people. The only reason to protest the war would be because you are opposed to any and all war, opposed to sending US troops anywhere, ever. In which case kudos to you, I suppose, for returning to the turn-of-the-century style isolationism that indirectly lead to the horrific casualties of World War I and II. The world depends on superpowers to lend coercive power to international regimes.

The best are those signs that say, "No Iraqi Blood for Oil." How about, "No More Iraqi Blood for French Interests," since the French opposed this war solely because they have hundreds of billions of dollars tied up with the Iraqi regime, money they will lose if Hussein is oustered because international regimes stipulate that a nation is not responsible for the debts of a deposed, illegitimate regime. The same goes for the Russians and Germans. The Russians have invested billions in Iraq's nuclear program.

And to answer those who argue that the US is only engendering more hate among out European allies: Whose fault is that? Ours? Bush is an inept, almost moronic leader who angered many when he imposed a steel tariff, pulled out of the Kyoto protocol, and so forth. But in this case, the US is trying to remove an unpopular, ruthless, Stalin-esque dictator and free a nation of people who live every day in terror (see Samir al-Khalil's book "Republic of Fear"). Should we allow him to continue to kill ruthlessly so that the French will like us? Keep in mind that Chirac is a Gaullist, and like a true Gaullist, his opposition to the United States is not predicated on any ideal, but rather on the desire to enhance French prestige--as the "alternative" to the US.

Oh, the protestors are so cute with their "F**k Bush" signs and slogans and thrift-store clothes and un-informed opinions about international politics.
However they are also wrong, dead wrong. There is nothing more painful for people with real experience of the Iraqi regime than to see young kids mugging for television cameras and their peers, waving signs that purport to support the Iraqi people. It is truly painful to see that when the victory of the Iraqi people is so close at hand, a group of pseudo-intellectuals prefer playing pretend--pretending to be politicos--to rejoicing with us and supporting the liberation of a nation of 22 million. Protest this war and you are naive, willfully ignorant, or enraptured by yourself and your "fight for freedom."

Foul; base; cruel; evil; wicked; vain; these are the only words that can describe you.

yours all
*Name removed fearing more harrasment.*

Re: THANK YOU Cynic

Hi SkateCynic, RealtorGal, Kasey, Aria, et.al. I guess I'll chime in here with a little knee-jerk rhetoric, a dash of hyperbolic propaganda, and a couple of choruses of Kumbayah.

I just read through this thread for the first time, and I took a few notes.

1. Was Iraq the Garden of Eden? YES! The Israelites absorbed and adapted the Babylonian creation myths during the Captivity. These are basically legends from ancient Sumeria, the land where the two great rivers divide into four heads, the Pison, the Gihon (Tigris), the Hiddekel and the Euphrates (Gen. 2:10).

By the way, a very famous Harvard theologian of the 1920s and 30s put forth the argument that the true Garden of Eden was actually Detroit. The four waters that nourished the garden were the Great Lakes, and when Adam and Eve were expelled from the garden in disgrace, they had to go to the Land of Nod, "East of Eden" -- you knew I was going to work Michelle in there somehow, didn’t you? -- that is, into the thorny and desolate land called Ohio.

OK, I’m being a smart Aleck. Sorry.

2. About casualties. According to today’s paper, 102 American soldiers have been killed in this war (including those killed by accident and friendly fire). It was also reported by U.S. military sources that the casualties on the other side were running about 3000 to 1. (Goliath 3000, David 1). If this estimate is in the right ball park it means that maybe about 300,000 Iraqis have died.

Well, everything is relative. I expected 1,000,000 or more, so I suppose that the actual numbers are good news. Each American soldier killed 1 Iraqi, instead of 3 or 4. The Iraqis cut their losses by the expedient of not fighting back, and in particular by not dragging out their stores of chemical, biological and nuclear weapons that maybe they have and maybe they don’t. Very wise.

Even so, I am sad, not jubilant in this victory.

3. But if you want jubilant, come to Detroit. Metropolitan Detroit (especially the city of Dearborn) has the largest population of Iraqi expatriates in the world. There are two distinct populations, the so-called Chaldeans, who are Catholics who came decades ago to escape religious persecution, and the more recent arrivals, Muslims who came mostly to flee the Saddam regime or to pursue economic opportunities.

These folks are ecstatic over the "regime change." Some even look forward to one day being able to go back to visit relatives.

4. Nothing succeeds like success. On to Iran!!!

I guess for me the bottom line is this. I was opposed to this war because I did not think that we had exhausted all other options. I think (I may be a minority of one here) that the U.N. sanctions and inspections DID succeed in neutering Saddam as a credible threat to his neighbors and to the rest of the world. The Iraqi economy is in a shambles, and that’s the one thing that you need to fight a war -- money. I still think that.

As it turned out, nobody cared what I thought. We had a war anyway. We won (of course). It wasn’t as bad as I had feared. We have a huge task ahead of us to rebuild that unfortunate nation on a stable foundation of national pride and freedom from fear.

Well then, let’s roll up our sleeves and get to work.

Mathman

Re: ONE MORE THING

Kasey,

I wish we had the 'notworthy' emoticon here........you've earned it!!

:notworthy

Re: ONE MORE THING

Amen to Kasey, sk8cynic, RealtorGal, Aria, etc. Count me in as another person who agrees with everything you said and supports what we're doing in Iraq. I really don't have anything more to add as you've all said it so well and far better than I ever could have. Thank you!!

Re: ONE MORE THING

thanks to everyone for their input and support.....

Joe, still waiting for a reply or comment.

Thanks.