Tugba Karademir

Joesitz (RIP) · Feb 5, 2007

Age is a factor in learning to turn in the air and it is very relevant, imo,

Kwan's maginificent flow over the ice and Cohen's incredible flexibility will not hold up in todays Technical. Their era has passed, imo.

Joe

iloveaxel · Feb 5, 2007

If Tugba

Want to reinforce my points. If Tugba wants to make real progress, she needs to take training very serious, 10 to 15 hours a week simply won't cut it.

I just read from Mao Asada's website. Even for a super talent like Mao, she trains 30 to 40 hours a week!!! (including dry land training, ballet etc).

R.D. · Feb 6, 2007

With suddenly increased training hours, the risk of injury also rises proportionally. But it's a risk that has to be taken.

GBerberoglu · Feb 6, 2007

In Europen FS 2006 and 2007 she got quite good technical points. Her main problem is on program components which is not directly relevant to her age. She must work harder to get more artistic points before learning more triple jumps.

She has great reputation here (her homeland, Turkiye).. She already did so much for Turkey, next year we'll be represented by 2 skaters :bow:

iloveaxel · Feb 6, 2007

GBerberoglu said:
In Europen FS 2006 and 2007 she got quite good technical points. Her main problem is on program components which is not directly relevant to her age. She must work harder to get more artistic points before learning more triple jumps.

She has great reputation here (her homeland, Turkiye).. She already did so much for Turkey, next year we'll be represented by 2 skaters

The reality is PCS is still tied to a skater's technical ability. If a skater can only do two triples, there's no way judges will reward you in PCS no matter how 'artistic' you are. The highest PCS Tugba can expect will be around middle 5s if her technical ability does not improve.

GBerberoglu · Feb 6, 2007

She's better at training.. check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vUi97oMve8

gio · Feb 6, 2007

GBerberoglu said:
She's better at training.. check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vUi97oMve8

Thanks

Her triple flip is improving. But I don't think it was fully rotated. At least she didn't fall or double footed. GO TUGBA!!! :rock:

Wait a minute!! There was a triple sal/triple loop attempt!!! But again not fully rotated. Well but she landed it without falling.

If she is able to do a triple loop after a triple sal, why she doesn't try a triple loop as a solo jump?

SeaniBu · Feb 6, 2007

GBerberoglu said:
She's better at training.. check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vUi97oMve8

Thank you, so enjoyable. :clap:

And even on YT I was able - me :eek:

- to see under rotations. Darn fine energy and speed though:agree:

dancindiva03 · Feb 6, 2007

Tugba's age alone isn't enough to hold her back, but in combination with the fact that she really does not spend enough hours on the ice then yes, I'd say she's really not going to get the harder triples consistent and she surely is not going to become a world champion. And like someone else mentioned, its not just the jumps that will hold her back, its her overall speed as well. She is much slower than the top ladies. Whether she has the POTENTIAL to become a world champion, I don't know, but she won't realise her full potential training the way that she does. Not that she doesn't work hard, but elite skaters need more than 10-15 hours of practice a week.

R.D. · Feb 6, 2007

Those are just numbers posted on a webpage. Who knows if she doesn't spend more than that on occasion (or for that matter, less)?

iloveaxel · Feb 6, 2007

Red Dog said:
Those are just numbers posted on a webpage. Who knows if she doesn't spend more than that on occasion (or for that matter, less)?

She is also studying bioengineering at University of Toronto. Don't believe she has time or maybe money to train as many other elite skaters do.

Anyway, she's already achieved a lot for her country. It's a bit a stretch to expect her to break into top 15 in the world, let alone medal.

dancindiva03 · Feb 6, 2007

iloveaxel said:
Anyway, she's already achieved a lot for her country. It's a bit a stretch to expect her to break into top 15 in the world, let alone medal.

Does anyone actually expect her to do that? Or is it just her saying that she wants to be World Champion? Because I don't ever expect her to be the WC, or even on the World podium.

skater 17 · Feb 7, 2007

At 22 your work is cut out for you, having said that if you can not dream then you may as well quit because this sport takes lots of heart. I understand that Lesley Hawker from Canada never landed a 2A until she was 16 and I believe she was quite a bit older with out much experience entered her first nationals. She is now 3rd in Canada and a fan favourite, love what she bring to the sport.

GBerberoglu · Feb 7, 2007

dancindiva03 said:
Does anyone actually expect her to do that? Or is it just her saying that she wants to be World Champion? Because I don't ever expect her to be the WC, or even on the World podium.

Yes, we're expecting better degrees

. That's her fault, she raised our expectations

(Top 5 will be more realistic)

And about training hours: She's living in Canada instead of Turkey for a better training. That is, how she cares her training.

antmanb · Feb 7, 2007

Tonichelle said:
while I do understand it would be harder I stand by my thought that if she wants it she'll get it... 22 is not a barrier that's too big to jump over

I'd be interested to know what jumps any skater has landed for the first time after the age of 22 and if they have managed to land them consistently.

I would think picking up a new triple after the age of 22 if pretty tough. Its not like she hasn't been trying to land the harder triplesshe just has not been able to. If she hasn't managed it yet i'd think its pretty doubtful that she'll get it now. A competitive triple lutz from Tugba, i think, would be at best highly unlikely.

Ant

GBerberoglu · Feb 7, 2007

Ok ppl, just check:
http://www.goldenskate.com/articles/2002/092602.shtml (September 26, 2002, when she was 17)

Taken from above:
"Having just gotten her triple flip and triple triple lutz, Karademir was all ready to start the season at JGP Phoenix, but the event was cancelled"
..
"Tugba now trains for about 10 hours per week on ice and 5 off ice. Working with Tebby, she landed her first triple salchow when she was 14, even before she landed a double axel. It's still her favorite jump. This season, she plans to use the triple salchow/triple loop combination in both the short and the long plus a triple toe/double toe in the long."

gkelly · Feb 7, 2007

iloveaxel said:
The reality is PCS is still tied to a skater's technical ability. If a skater can only do two triples, there's no way judges will reward you in PCS no matter how 'artistic' you are. The highest PCS Tugba can expect will be around middle 5s if her technical ability does not improve.

Stephanie Rosenthal got mid-high 6s for all program components except Skating Skills at 2006 US Nationals with only two triples.
http://stlouis2006.usfigureskating.org/upload/general/news/seniorladies-report.pdf

Jennifer Don averaged mid 6s with only two triples at 2003 Nebelhorn.
http://www.isufs.org/events/nt03/NT03_Ladies_FP_Scores.pdf

Admittedly, nationals scores tend to be higher across the board than the same skaters would get internationally, and that Nebelhorn was the first COP event when the standards were still being worked out.

But I do think that if a skater's quality of basic skating (as in Don's case) or choreography and presentation (as in Rosenthal's) is on a higher standard than her jump repertoire, she will get PCS scores more in line with those of other skaters on a similar skating or presentation level than those of other skaters with the same jump content.

The question is, are Karademir's skating skills, presentation, and choreography on par with the skaters who are getting 6s or better? There are plenty of skaters who do more triples and still get 4s and 5s.

Sylvia · Feb 18, 2007

Here's the link to a Tugba Karademir feature article in "The Strand" (student newspaper of Victoria University in the University of Toronto):
http://media.www.thestrand.ca/media...ting.Odyssey.Of.Tugba.Karademir-2725911.shtml
(I had to register to read the entire article, but it's free)

Excerpts:

In many ways, Tugba seems symbolic of Turkey's hopes for itself. Sometimes seen as a backwards Islamic country, and with its image tarnished by the recent assassination of Turkish-Armenian journalist Hrant Dink, Turkey is struggling to establish itself positively on the world stage. Tugba is conscious of this, saying that "People still think of Turkey as an Islamic state. We are a secular, democratic country." As Turkey struggles to gain international respect, and to gain entry to the prestigious European Union, so Tugba is fighting for a spot among the top rank of skaters in a sport that has traditionally been dominated by Europe and North America. She herself is a good advertisement for the new Turkey: a young, educated cosmopolitan female athlete.
...
She is currently working towards the long-term goal of success at the 2010 Winter Olympics in Vancouver. She trains constantly (when I spoke to her on the phone she was returning from the gym), and also coaches younger skaters at her Mariposa club. She is also a part-time student at York University, studying Biotechnology. Clearly she has talent and brains, but can she shock the world in 2010?

"That is a very lofty goal but one that isn't impossible." She says. "I think that if I work hard for the next few years I can achieve that goal. All I want is to be able to represent Turkey and skate my best when the time comes. At the end of the day I will be happy with that."
...
One thing is certain, though. Even with her relatively modest success so far, Tugba has become an inspiration to many. Tugba hopes that she can be "an example for kids in Turkey or other 'non-traditional' skating countries so that if they dream one day of competing at the Olympics they know that it isn't just the Americans or Russians that can achieve that dream."

R.D. · Feb 18, 2007

Well, what's her idea of "success" at the 2010 Games? :scratch:

greig · Feb 19, 2007

Well i think Tugba is a fab skater.She has improved sooo much and i beleive that she is determined to get the tripple lutz.She already has the tripple flip and in the europeans it was fully rotated and only double footed.She did not fall over.She is getting places and if she works at it she will achieve a top 10 placing in Worlds easy!World Champion is a long shot though..but still u never know in time.She beleives in herself and her potential as an elite skater and thats always great to see.

GO TUGBA!!
YOU ROCK GIRL!(but not as good as Sarah Meier

Tugba Karademir

Joesitz (RIP)

iloveaxel

Match Penalty

R.D.

GBerberoglu

iloveaxel

Match Penalty

GBerberoglu

gio

SeaniBu

dancindiva03

Match Penalty

R.D.

iloveaxel

Match Penalty

dancindiva03

Match Penalty

skater 17

GBerberoglu

antmanb

GBerberoglu

gkelly

Sylvia

R.D.

greig

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