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Lysacek Does it Again
- Thread starter SailorGalaxia518
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- Feb 17, 2006
Yes he again benefits from almost criminal high scoring that reduce the already suspect credability of a sport that is literaly on thin ice. His role as one of the most overscored skaters of the last decade should not be held against him as I am sure he works hard and no competitive skater will not believe they dont earn whatever they get. However the disturbingly elevated scores he attains for skating standards not worthy of scores anywhere that vacinity, is one of the most emphatic examples of why figure skating is losing its popularity. The serious skating fan is not fooled or naive to see those skaters raised to an elevated status by judges not through the standard of skating they present but through problems that mar this once great sport. It simply turns those of us who have followed the sport for many years, and want so much for it to show as much integrity and fairness as possable, off the sport altogether.
Cannot agree more, Kittycat! :agree: Lysacek seems to be judges daaahhling since 2005 at least, when he "won" Worlds Bronze, and nobody (in Europe) really got why. I still remember how German Eurosport commentators were totally shocked/disgusted about the result.
Anke
Anke
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Who did they think should have won (bronze)?
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- Jul 11, 2003
Good question.
Maybe they thought Lindemann was overlooked? I don't think so.
Joe
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- Dec 15, 2003
I think its unfair to have Lysacek´s PCS higher than Buttle´s. Buttle is truely and artist on the ice and has much harder choreography.
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I can perfectly sympathize with the confusion of the Eurosport commentators you are refering to. They echoed my own confusion at the time as well, it was pretty much the birth of a mysterious judge-anointed star of the sport as you say. The judges incentives behind some of their urges to elevate certain skaters well beyond the standard of their skating with such persistance, may not always be known, but the assumption of the judges that serious skating fans and experts are being fooled is a real mistake on their part. All they are doing is offending the logic of those of us who are serious skating fans, or those who are payed to cover the sport.
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I cant speak for the Eurosports commentators but I can certainly say Weir and Chengiang Li both deserved it far more then Lysacek did.
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What I want to know is how Lysacek's PC score are so close to Buttle's. I get preformance execution being close, but Jeff's choreography and SS marks should be much higher than Lysacek's not something like 0.1 or 0.2. I accually like to watch Lysacek, but aside from the jumps, he's not really comparable to Jeffery. Marks should be given for a difficult choreographic program, not just the jumps. It's much more difficult for Buttle to land his jumps than Lysacek as his program is so intracet. This should be reflected in the PC.
Lysacek is the better jumper, but Buttle's the better skater.
Lysacek is the better jumper, but Buttle's the better skater.
I am so tired of hearing this argument from Buttle apologists. If it's so easy to land a jump with relatively easy program, then ask Buttle to land it in an easier program. The truth is he can't do 3A, let alone quad.
Please let him land that damn 3A before we talk.
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He has landed the 3axel, he's not 100% consistancy, but it's pretty good. There are lots of skaters who miss that jump. He did also just come off an injury after 3 months off the ice.
How about other skaters (ie. Joubert, Lysacek) land 3axel in a more difficult program? Why should Buttle have to simplify his choreography to get the jumps? Why can't other skater get their choreograph up to his level? When that happens and they land 3axels and quads, then maybe I'll agree with you, not before.
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Missing three axels in a row, if you count his record at nationals, that's 1 successful 3A among 6 attempts, I can hardly call it 85%-90%. If he really hits above 50% rate, nobody will say he does not have 3A.
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- Feb 17, 2006
Can I ask you something. Do you only consider skating to be jumps alone. In other words would you prefer if the skaters came out, had lets say 10 jumps to do for what we would refer to as a "long jump session" instead of the long program. Before that there would be the session where you are alloted 5 jumps for your "short jump session". The session would be you had a certain time limit per jump, you when you wanted to start your preperation for the jump, skating into it then only the jump itself, along with the exact second or so leading into it, and the landing quality and speed of that would be evaluated. Doing that 5 times in the "short jumps session" and then 10 times in the "long jump session". I ask that as it seems you only focus on jumps so would you rather they made the competition like that to suit your viewing desires?
Of course not. Ideally, you want a very balanced skater. I very much prefer Brian, Lambiel etc. They really combine athletism and artistry well.
Nnot having some basic jumps such as 3A is unacceptable for an elite skater. That's why I hate judges to reward Buttle with medals. To be honest with you, Evan's skating does nothing to me, he is very sloppy, and he's been constantly overmarked by judges during quadless era. But hey, I'll take a 2-3A-one-quad Evan anyday than a axelless & quadless Buttle.
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- Feb 17, 2006
So you are saying you most prefer a balance of jumping and general skating, but will take the jumping with little else of consequence, over the general skating of very high quality but completely unacceptable jumping level? OK I can see your opinion in that case.
Calling Evan's in-between skating sloppy is very true as well.
That's my point. If Buttle hits 2 axels, I will have no problem with him crushing Evan with a quad by a large margin. Buttle's program is indeed much much stronger. But because Buttle could not even manage a simple axel, the judges had to do something on PCS in order for Evan to win. That's not fair, but it's just the fault of current scoring system. I very much prefer tec points taking larger percentage in total scores, then PCS may start to truly reflect the quality of no-tec elements.
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- Jul 11, 2003
kittycat - Do you really think the judges have gotten together and worked on a comparative scoring system to place Lysacek in Third at 2005 Worlds? We don't even know the names of those judges, and they have no idea what each judge is scoring those dumb GoEs, and moreso, if their scores are even going to be used. Sorry, but this is Evan and the CoP. It did for Jeffrey in that same competition.
No, I'm not an overwhelming fan of Evan but it's points, points, points that drive up the winner including those far behind as Evan was in that Worlds. He's actually been a paradox since then, but then there are those points!
IMO, Jeffrey is a better skater but he needs to make certain tricks to get higher PCS scores. I can't believe that is true, but it is.
The thing with Lambiel is that he is a beautiful skater and his tricks are scoring high especially with Quad and QuadCombo.
Joe
No, I'm not an overwhelming fan of Evan but it's points, points, points that drive up the winner including those far behind as Evan was in that Worlds. He's actually been a paradox since then, but then there are those points!
IMO, Jeffrey is a better skater but he needs to make certain tricks to get higher PCS scores. I can't believe that is true, but it is.
The thing with Lambiel is that he is a beautiful skater and his tricks are scoring high especially with Quad and QuadCombo.
Joe
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