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Thread: Euros v. 4CC

  1. #1
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Euros v. 4CC

    Now that we got the two American divas out of the picture (praise to be) we have seen a much more interesting 4CC. True, it was mostly about N.Ameria and no really strong Asians except for Pairs.

    Hopefully, in future, the next 4CC wherever it is held will have all the top drawer skaters from everywhere in those four continents.

    Do you see a more interesting 4CC competition than Euros competition?

    Joe

  2. #2
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Just a reminder that this hasn't been shown on TV yet so spoilers belong in the event folder and only there... this is just a reminder to those that may respond, not to the actual post...

    I think this 4CC was much more exciting, but I'm a biased N. American lol

  3. #3
    Gadfly and Bon Vivant Mafke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Now that we got the two American divas out of the picture (praise to be) we have seen a much more interesting 4CC. True, it was mostly about N.Ameria and no really strong Asians except for Pairs.

    Hopefully, in future, the next 4CC wherever it is held will have all the top drawer skaters from everywhere in those four continents.

    Do you see a more interesting 4CC competition than Euros competition?
    As long as US and Canadian nationals are in January then I tend to doubt it.

    Most European national championships are in December IINM but that would be a big change for US skating.

  4. #4
    Skating Freak Barbie
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    I don't think 4CC is generally a more "interesting" competition than Euros, simply because Euros generally HAS the top skaters from each country (maybe with few exceptions). It is very rare that the A-level skaters show up at the 4CC. If it was taken as seriously as Euros seems to be taken by the European skaters, maybe it would become more competitive. But to see skaters not normally seen in a major international competition, well, it may be "interesting" I guess, but not as competitive.

  5. #5
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Kasey - Your point is well taken about the 'A' skaters not showing up but I think now that Michelle and Sasha are no longer avoiding 4CC, that the 'A' skaters who do show up will make a more interesting competition.

    As to the 'A' skaters in Euros. You don't mean Spain, Portugal. Norway Iceland, Denmark, Monaco, Romania, Latvia, do you? And how many of the others have 'A'skating competitiveness outside their own country? It seems to me that France (Men, Dance), Belgium (Men) Switzerland (Ladies), Czeh Rep (Men), Germany (Pairs), Bulgaria (dance), Russia (Dance, Pairs) are more or less podium competitive.

    Given so many countries that are actually A competitive compared with a handful of 4CC countries which have more 'A" competitors if we include a full Japanese contingent plus Korea. To me, at least, there is more excitement in 4CCs but the problem of travelling will kill a full contingent from all countries. Europeans have it easier.

    Joe

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    Penny & Nick! La Rhumba's Avatar
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    When I watch Europeans, I feel I'm watching a major Championships, with a long history, excitement, and a big audience. I'm watching 4CCs now, and it's practially an empty stadium, and quite low key.

    Being selected for Euros is considered a priveledge and an honour for a skater, but every year some of the eligible North American and Japanese skaters drop out, it's a shame, and the venue needs to be selected better. Warsaw was a very small arena, but mostly packed after the first day, and generated alot of heat and excitement which came across on TV well.

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    I've never understood why such a large number of the top skaters brush off 4CC's as unimportant. Originally IIRC 4CC's was meant to be the North American/Central American/Asian etc. counterpart to the European Championships and be seen as prestigious as the European Championships.

    Yet many of the top skaters don't bother showing up and for some reason 4CC's is almost always poorly attended. I wonder if it is promoted properly.

    Like La Rhumba I feel like Europeans is a bigger championship (almost like a mini Worlds) but I do enjoy being able to see some of the lower ranked skaters that otherwise wouldn't be seen by American viewers. I do wish that this years 4CC's hadn't been scheduled to air at the same time as the U.S. Nationals exhibitions.

  8. #8
    Penny & Nick! La Rhumba's Avatar
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    I agree it's good that the Junior skating nations get a chance to compete on the world stage, and even if they finish last and 20 points behind the next competitors, as the Aussie Dancers did, I still feel they should be allowed to compete to gain experience.

    Euros is the first leg of a famous triple crown for European skaters, if you hold the Euros, Olympic and World Golds, you automatically become a Legend.

  9. #9
    Vancouver 2010, 247.23, Bronze
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    Have just finished watching 4CC. I must say, Jeremy Abbot's bronze is nowhere near European Kevin VDP's bronze.

  10. #10
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    I think it's hard for the ISU to create an event by fiat and then just declare that it is important because Speedy says so. Europeans has a distinguished history and a tradition dating back to 1891. Europeans has Ulrich Salchow and Sonja Henie.

    IIRC Four Continents was invented after it was decided that there wasn't any point in continuing the old North American Championships since only two countries ever came. This is only the ninth competition. (Takeshi Honda of Japan and Tatiana Malinina of Uzbekistan won the first one in 1999.)

    These things take time.

  11. #11
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I think it's hard for the ISU to create an event by fiat and then just declare that it is important because Speedy says so. Europeans has a distinguished history and a tradition dating back to 1891. Europeans has Ulrich Salchow and Sonja Henie.
    And Dick Button. (couldn't help adding that)

    Yes, 4CC is that newbie championship. Give it it time, but much depends on where it is held. The travel can be tough.

    Joe

  12. #12
    Down With It
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    This year could be a step in the right direction though- the US stars and Canadian stars and Chinese stars showed up. Only noticeable absences were the top Japanese ladies.

  13. #13
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    I personally have never gotten into Euros, and really haven't always been all that hot for 4CC, but this year was different 4CCs totally rocked.

    Maybe it's my Westerner/N. American biased coming into play, but I just have more favorites in the 4CC group this year than the Euros... so I guess it makes it easier for me to pick one lol

    I think this could really explain the polarization on the skating boards very few 'European based' fans are going to choose 4CCs as better, and vise versa

  14. #14
    Down With It
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    But there's still the mentality (shared by both Europeans and N. Americans) that Europeans is considered a "major championship" and 4CC's isn't. 4cc's seems to be more like a "let's test my program one more time before worlds" competition whereas in Europe folks take that comp seriously and a win there is considered big. And then you have its (much) longer history. Maybe the turnout of more "stars" at 4cc's is a step in the right direction to it becoming more of a "major" championship. I say if the US, Japan, Canada, etc. start and continue to send their best skaters the 4CCs can and will evolve over time into a "major" championship. But that's just my longshot prediction. Who knows if the comp will even last...?

  15. #15
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    I know Russia (and maybe other European countries) use results at Euros, as well as results at Nats, in naming the World team. Maybe, if American and Asian countries did the same with the 4CCs, more "A" list skaters would show up. As it stands now, no "A" list skater who can avoid flying from Japan to US (or from US to Asia, Australia, etc.) will voluntarily subject themselves to that long a trip (I doubt that the Chinese pairs had much of say in whether they would go or not)

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