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Thread: "Legend" - who really is one?

  1. #31
    Kara Bear

    Re: Who is a Legend?

    Anke, I love your posts!!! :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:

  2. #32

    Re: My Legends List

    Speak for yourself Frozetoes. As an USA American I look at Kurt as the Best Ever male skater. That, of course, is my opinion. I also know of many other Americans who feel the same.

    But for me, the term LEGEND does not come from the fans but from a skater displaying an excellent body of work as discussed by the sports writers.

    In this thread, I am wondering if any skater has been left out of the legendary status?

    Frozetoes - Your last comment is the right one. Legends are in the eyes of the beholder.


  3. #33
    Show 42

    Re: My Legends List

    Hi frozetoez (love that name)......You're person's "legend", may be another person's "ho-hum". 42

  4. #34

    Who is a Legend?

    IMHO, in sports or even in the entertainment industry legends are not made by fans or media. It's the collective agreement by the peers, legends themselves, fans and the media that make a legend. And yes, there are living legends - Paul McCartney, the Rolling Stones, Elizabeth Taylor, Madonna...etc...etc...etc. Of course untimely death does do wonder in making instant legends, think James Dean. Let's take James Dean for example, 4 films and they weren't even great films except maybe Giant and he was a legend. Well, his fans certainly didn't make him one, it's the fans who suddenly came out and worshipped him after his death that got the media influenced. Soon after the media had endorsed him as one, the whole film industry went into agreement for some reason, hence a legend was made.

    Fans don't make legends. Britney Spears' or Shania Twain's fans who number in tens of millions worldwide would certainly think she is one but so long as the media, the people in the industry do not endorse it, they aren't.

    Back to skating, if Michelle is endorsed by peers, legends like Dick, Peggy, Dorothy, Carol H.Jenkins,..etc, her fans and lastly the media then she is one, it doesn't matter if she is alive or dead, retired or still skating. If only her fans think so, then she isn't. I don't agree that legends have to be known internationally or locally. In evey sport and the entertainment industry, there are legends that escape us but that doesn't mean they aren't.

  5. #35

    Re: Who is a Legend?

    As far as I remember James Dean did only three movies so to speak: East of Eden, Rebel without a Cause and Giant. In some earlier ones he had only some very insignifiant part.

    In Finland we got to see his movies after his dead. I remember reading American movie magazines trying to understand what was written about him although I had not had any English in the school in that time, LOL.


  6. #36

    Re: Who is a Legend?

    Thanks for correcting me Jaana, I had always had the impression he did 4 films.

  7. #37

    Re: Who is a Legend?

    <blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>"Anke, I love your posts" -- Kara Bear[/quote]Hey Kara, I'll make a deal with you. I'll root for Sasha at the U.S. Nationals if you'll help me convince Anke to like Michelle.:rollin: <blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>"Again, what is the criterion for the term legend" -- Joe[/quote]IMHO a person is a "legend" if he or she is still remembered with admiration and awe years after he or she dies or otherwise passes from the active scene. Apache points out that there are people who are regarded as "living legends." Still, think of Sonia Henie. She died in 1969, but she is still remembered (fondly or otherwise) by skating fans and the general public alike.

    Dick Button's last major competition was in 1952. But he is still talked about in figure skating circles today.

    When Michelle Kwan first started working with Lori Nichol, Lori sat her down and made her watch film clips of Janet Lynn. "Who's Janet Lynn," asked young Michelle. Lori told her, just watch, this is how I want you to learn to skate.

    Years from now, will coaches and choreographers sit their young students down and show them clips of Michelle Kwan? "See, this is how I want you to skate one day."

    About her own skating, Michelle has said on several occasions that some day, when she is a grandmother, that will be the time to look back on her career and evaluate what she accomplished in the sport. I agree.<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>"Let those that adore her do that and those that don't follow their own course." -- Bronzeisgolden[/quote]:D Gosh, I wish I'd said that!:D


  8. #38

    Not Canadian but..

    I think when people take a look at his body of work they will see that Kurt is a legend.

    He doesn't have BB & Scott's OGM but he's on the same level as they are.

  9. #39

    Legends and making deals

    I still think legends are somewhat locally bound.

    Sibeliius had written many tone poems based on Finnish legends. One example is the Lemminkainen legend.

    Honestly how many people outside of Finland knows about this story? (Classical music lovers are exceptions, but they know about the story through Sibeliuis music)

    How many people outside of China knows about the legend of the herdsman and the Sun god's daughter? Kwan fans know because Kwan was born on the 7th day of the 7th month.

    ITA, Legend is to the eye of the beholder. Michael Jordan, and Pete Sampras are on my list.

    BTW, just teasing, MM I don't think you will come ahead or even with your deal. Your deal is done in 2 steps, you have to convince the convincer to like MK first.

    Anke will never change her mind, just like the result of world competition 96 will never be changed. MK beat Lulu.

    I like Anke, over the years I observed some Kwan fans are able to raise this to an art form. How not to let your chains be yanked. In that regard, I think you are excellent at it, but making deals?

  10. #40

    Re: Legends and making deals

    :lol: You're getting pretty good at it yourself, ET.:lol:

  11. #41

    Re: Legends and making deals

    I tend to agree with the poster who stated that the "terms" of someone's legend has to do with the context of it.

    When you start comparing the legends is the real problem....if skater x is a legend, then does it not follow that skater y with this many accomplishments should be considered a legend too!

    There are also many legendary poeple who should probably be included but are seldom thought of because of the lack of media in their time, or their behind the scenes roles. Sonja H. is a great example. We only see what newsreels and archives tell us, but at one time she was one of the most sucessful and well payed entertainers of her day. She most certainly had as much celebrity as someone like Tina Turner. Yet there was no "Diva's Live" to broadcast her stardom and legendary talent.

    I agree that, while not yet a legend, Michelle Kway is fast approaching that status. She has far surpassed her "media generated "legend status" ( broadcast specials, earnings,personal appearances, merchandising, etc...) She is now in the category of legendary sportsman. Her 5 World Championchips (3 more silver) and her incredible winning record ( she has competed far more than someone decorated like Carol Heiss Jekins, who is a figure skating great IMHO, but not neccessarily a legend yet. Her coaching hasn't yeilded the kind of champions you need to produce for that status.)

    Then there are the "unsung" legends. Did Maribelle Vincent Ownens make a huge impact on the World scene? That depends on how you look at it. She did win 9 or 10 ladies US singles titles, and 4-5 US pairs titles, but she also lent a great deal of suggestions to the likes of Dick Button and Hayes Jenkins when the figure skating community in the US was smaller and more tightly knit. Her daughter won the US Championships and both died in the team plane crash that halted an era of American figure skating. It was her pupil Mabel Fairbanks that could not compete, because as a black woman she could not belong to the requisite figure skating club to compete. M V Owens coached her in secret and for free so that she could go on to become one of the premier show skaters in the world and eventually put together Tai and Randy who would make history of their own.

    Later another pupil and protege would continue the "Owen legend" by coaching and producing a bravura performer that most likely should have won worlds in a less political time. Yes, Frank Carroll continued Owen's vision of figure skating and passed it on to both his "star" proteges Linda Fratiani and Il Kwan herself.

    There are always people in the background that make things happen. Whether someone is a legend: by skating standards such as Henney: by coaching like Carlo Fossi: by both like I Rodnina( a Dr. of Sports Medicine by the way) ; Button, who has impacted the sport in many ways such as athletic, academic, business, management, and commentary achievements. They all have achieved legendary status, whether we know them or not. Celebrity can help achieve legendary status, but it isn't the same thing.

  12. #42

    Re: Legends and making deals

    ITA, Legend is to the eye of the beholder. Michael Jordan, and Pete Sampras are on my list.

    Eltamina, I don't quite agree with that. If a legend were to the eye of the beholder, then we would have a heck lot of legends around because everyone has their own choices and opinions but we don't, do we?. IMHO, legends have to be endorsed by all parties as I have mentioned in my last post. The media is the last party to confirm it or it probably picks up the cue and follows suit.

    Let me quote you an example. Almost all Mariah Carey fans think she is a legend especially given that she has had 15 #1's in the US, behind only Elvis and Beatles. By right that should guarantee her the legendary status. Unfortunately, most of her peers, the important people and legends in the music industry don't think so. They may hold her in high regard for her voice, her incredible chart career and album sales, but still they don't think she deserves to be called a legend. The media isn't stupid, it picks up on it. Hence, we have never read anything that suggests Mariah is a legend. If we were to follow what her fans say because we believe legends are to the eye of beholder, we would agree she's a legend. But she isn't. Media doesn't say so, the people from the industry never think so. Madonna on the other hand is, because the majority of all the parties have endorsed her. That's why in print, we sometimes read legend as far as Madonna is concerned.

    This isn't just for the music industry. It's the same for the entertainment industry and all sports. You need endorsement from all parties to certify a legend. Sampras and Michael Jordan are legends. It's just not your opinion or mine but the opinion of their peers, fans, other legends and finally the media.

    I know my opinion on "what makes a legend" is rather unorthodox compared to the rest, but this is what I strongly feel.

  13. #43

    Re: Legends and making deals

    Quoting MM

    "You are pretty good yourself ET"

    Thanks for the compliment I am good at playing tricks with your eyes, illusion or real? Ella Fitzgerald or memorex.

    :lol: :lol:

    Look at the gorgeous earrings, beautiful ears, and the perfect symmetrical oval shape face.

    Here is one more.

    Apache, I am in an agreeable mood today, so whatever you say. <span style="color:orange;font-size:medium;">ITA</span>
    But in my music world, the guys/gals are not legend, they are gods, and goddesses.

  14. #44
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2005

    Re: Legends and making deals

    Eltamina, I like that MK picture.

  15. #45

    Love the pictures

    Those are really beautiful pictures.

    ApacheA I agree about Mariah. I think if it weren't for her bump in the road then perhaps she would have been considered a legend in the future. Who thinks Whitney's personal life messed up her chances also for legendary status?

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