Define bashing versus criticism

I'm curious as to what others mean by bashing versus criticism or "harsh criticism." Goldenskate guidelines prohibit bashing, but some posters (including myself) nonetheless see it happening... but we don't all perceive it in the same posts.

This is inspired by the thread on Emily Hughes where there are references to bashing and harsh detractors. Yet I just went through the whole thread and all I see in it are fair criticisms expressed respectfully.

For me bashing is posting with total negativity (poster doesn't acknowledge any positive qualities in the skater) ... obsessiveness (poster has irrational need to repeat same criticisms or disdainful expressions over and over) ... disrespect (poster is not just critical but scornful or rude) ... meanness (poster forgets that skater is a kid/young adult, or skater attacks all who are not his/her favorite). I saw this kind of thing all the time with Cohen before this season and others have said it happens with other skaters too. (Sometimes I think certain skaters serve as lightning rods or scapegoats who help keep the discussion civilized for everybody else.)

Bashing happens all the time in other sports - e.g. if you listen to (or are a captive audience, as in a taxi , of) call-in sports shows on the radio. In skating, however, it is less acceptable because the athletes are often so young and so individually exposed (as opposed to team sports), and because the fans form a relatively small and communal constituency.

Is bashing a "soft" concept or one that can be clearly defined? Are there degrees of it, with some degrees being acceptable on a forum like this? Or is it always wrong - so that some other term should be used for acceptable levels of criticism? It would be nice if we could agree about this so that we can both stop BEING offensive and stop ACCUSING one another of being offensive when in fact we are engaging in acceptable levels of criticism. A pipe dream, maybe!

Bashing: Emily is an ungraceful klutz who waves her arms around like semaphores, crashes down on her jumps, and acts as if a miracle has occurred every time she manages to land a jump.

Criticism: Emily's enthusiasm and positive attitude is great, but she needs to select music that highlights her athletic style. Ballet music does not suit her, as she is not naturally graceful and her attempts at balletic arm movements don't quite fit with the power jumping and sometimes off-kilter landings.

I agree completely with Spun Silver's three criteria, "totally negative," "obsessive" and -- this pretty much sums it up, IMHO -- "mean."

Why would anyone want to come out on a public discussion board and announce to the world, "I'm a mean and nasty person, so there!"

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Why would anyone want to come out on a public discussion board and announce to the world, "I'm a mean and nasty person, so there!"[/QUOTE]

There were alot of Sasha haters who were called by another name that were willing to do this. They even said they would not be skating fans when their favorite skater was gone.

Thanks for making me look back to see how I have been critiquing Kimmie. No one has accused me of bashing her but I may have been close. I just think she has been very lucky to put together two mediocre programs to win titles when others faltered. I will try to phrase my opinions in a more positive way in the future.

I think it's when a blunt statement is not explained. She'll never get on the podium.

Corrective criticism is when you offer a solution to what you think may be wrong with the skater and do it as being helpful and not as being pompous., e.g. I think when she gets those jumps under control she will be very competitive.

Joe

I think we can all tell constructive criticism of a skater and separate it from the harsh stuff...maybe all except the biggest uberfans of the skater that's being targeted.

But to distinguish BASHING from HARSH CRITICISM...I think they are both very similar, but when you resort to BASHING it gets PERSONAL. Harsh criticism, to me, is simply using stronger, more negative words to critique a skater. So Bashing= Name Calling, Harsh Criticism= strong negative adjectives.

For example, saying Emily is boring, clunky, heavy. Harsh criticism. Emily is a klutz, she's fat. Bashing.

If someone agrees with you it's a valid criticism. If they don't it's bashing

To be honest I see more personal bashing (meanness, rudeness) of other posters than bashing of skaters on this forum.

demarinis5 said:

To be honest I see more personal bashing (meanness, rudeness) of other posters than bashing of skaters on this forum.

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I agree. Some posters (who shall remain nameless, but I'm sure we all know who they are) can be downright b*tchy. One said some pretty nasty words in the Men's LP thread for US Nationals.

gsrossano said:

If someone agrees with you it's a valid criticism. If they don't it's bashing

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HAHA how true that is

To me bashing is making misinformed blanket statements about someone or something with total disregard for that persons feelings and others feelings. Usually it is done in a derogatory mannor and meant to slight someone. On the other hand constructive criticism may express a difference of opinion but is not meant to hurt anyone. I think we sometimes get carried away here at golden skate by trying to express our opinion about our likes and dislikes in the figure skating world and it sometimes comes across as bashing instead of constructive criticism.

Ladskater said:

To me bashing is making misinformed blanket statements about someone or something with total disregard for that persons feelings and others feelings. Usually it is done in a derogatory mannor and meant to slight someone. On the other hand constructive criticism may express a difference of opinion but is not meant to hurt anyone. I think we sometimes get carried away here at golden skate by trying to express our opinion about our likes and dislikes in the figure skating world and it sometimes comes across as bashing instead of constructive criticism.

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This is so off-topic, but Ladskater, welcome back!

just a reminder - you can always report a post that you feel is extremely harsh or something you feel breaks teh guidelines, including mod posts... the mods all discuss the topic, unless it's an obvious no no, and come to some consensus (or at least we try to lol)

don't EVER be afraid to report a post!

I think the word bashing is waaaaaaaaaaay overused. Some people simply cannot deal with the fact that not everyone shares his/her obsession/adoration of one skater or another and cry "bashing!!!!!!!!" when an alterate opinion is voiced. I don't think it is bashing to say that a skater bores you, or is overmarked, or that you don't understand why a skater is so hyped. If you call a skater an ugly little rat-faced brat with no talent, that's bashing.

dancindiva03 said:

If you call a skater an ugly little rat-faced brat with no talent, that's bashing.

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I believe that's exactly what you did to Caroline Zhang on this board and other boards. Can we call it bashing based on your own definition?

I still don't know if you wear pants or skirt and I am damn serious. Please don't consider this as bashing.

chuckm gave a good example of the diffrence.

To me , bashing is when I see a certain poster go on every thread, whether it is related to Sarah or Emily (since you've used Emily's thread as an example) and go out of the way to point their weaknesses and even bring up their family's wealth as some sort of reason Emily is not entitled to be on a team/ is held up etc.

I've been on these board for years and have an idea about whom posters like (especially people who post frequently) just as people have an idea as to my opinions on certain skaters. I find the criticism of Kimmie and Emily to be perplexing. These are just kids finding their way. I don't think Kimmie is any worse of a world champion than Michelle Kwan and Tara Lipinski were when they first won their titles. Kimmie is going to have years to develop an artistry that suits her. When I see Kimmie, my thought is that her skating is very similar to Todd Eldredge's skating. Great basics and solid jumps with a competitive outlook on performing. Todd was never a reach out and grab you skater, however he had found a perfomance sensibility that really worked for him and reaches out to the audience without compromising his personal authenticity.

It seems to me that when Kimmie first won her title there were many disgruntled Sasha fans b!tching about Kimmie's technique, artistry etc. However my impression is now that many MK fans have jumped on board- my opinion is that mainly this is due to Kimmie's continued success and growing popularity. In a few years, Kimmie will probably eclipse Michelle in popularity, especially if she wins that OGM in 2010 and my thought is that many fans feel threatened by it. That's all I can think of when I see the virulent posts. She's just a kid working toward her goals. If she could wave a magic wand and change her "airplane" arms and be more graceful, she would have done it already. She doesn't skate like that to annoy people: she's just working with what she's got. Same deal with Emily. Emily is 5'6 and is born with the body she has. She can't cut off her hips and shrink her thighs just to appease skating fans.

soogar said:

. Emily is 5'6 and is born with the body she has. She can't cut off her hips and shrink her thighs just to appease skating fans.

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I love Kimmie !! She is so good.

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Aw, iloveaxel, why not just say you like Kimmie's skating and leave off the rest?