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Thread: Yagudin vs. Plushenko

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    Custom Title demarinis5's Avatar
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    Yagudin vs. Plushenko

    I am going to go down memory lane. I just watched the 2002 Olympic skates of Plushenko and Yagudin on you-tube. Both Yagudin and Plushenko programs were excellent but very different. Does anyone know the breakdown of the marks. Did Yagudin win by a landslide? Also does anyone think that Plushenko should have won that competition?

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    Quote Originally Posted by demarinis5 View Post
    Also does anyone think that Plushenko should have won that competition?
    Yagudin won that competition in a cakewalk. Plushenko fell during the SP and was placed in 4th and he could have been placed lower. It's not that the program was a disaster but he received a couple of 5.6's for Technical Merit. With a mandatory deduction of .4 for the fall that means he would have received 6.0's. In my mind he was held up, although as defending world champ it was to be expected.

    With Yagudin in first after the SP and Plushenko in 4th he would have had to win the LP and have Yagudin place no higher than 3rd. That pretty much sums up the technical aspect of whether Plushenko should have won.

    When it came down to the programs Yagudin had the more complete programs. Plushenko was Yagudin's equal in the technical department but didn't deliver the goods completely. He fell out of the 3loop on his 4-3-3combo and doubled a Salchow. Yagudin was clean technically with the only iffy part being a slightly forward landing on his 3flip.

    Presentation wise Yagudin was and still is considered by most to be the superior of the two skaters and he skated with incredible abandon that night adding to the effectiveness of his performance. Considering he skated the most demanding of all Olympic winning performances, Yagudin takes this event hands down. There were definitely times that Plushenko outskated Yagudin, but this competition wasn't one of those times.
    Last edited by mike79; 02-19-2007 at 11:49 PM.

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    Figure Skating Is A Dangerous Sport Dee4707's Avatar
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    Good summation Mike. I thought Alexei's Olympic skates were terrific.

    Dee

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    Rooting for the divas with Kwanford Spun Silver's Avatar
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    Mike79, I don't think we've met but I love you!

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    No opinion

    I am not particularly into men's event, no opinion. But I do like Brian !! Brian is the best in figure skating history!!!

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    I was not enthusiastic about Plushenko or Yagudin in the Olympics. During the Olympic season Plushenko had problems with the freeskate programme, it got changed rather late, didn´t it? I blame Mishin for Plushenko´s unsuccess. Besides, Plushenko was injured before the Olympics and he suffered from it there.

    Yagudin´s freeskate was not impressive in the Olympics, in my opinion. He was the last to skate and played it safe and that was veeeery obvious to my eyes. If one compares his freeskate performances at Olympics and Worlds, the latter is rather different, in my opinion. I think that not long ago I saw somewhere a link for his Olympic freeskate, but that clip actually was from the Worlds!
    Last edited by Jaana; 02-20-2007 at 01:54 AM.

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    don't mean to be incendiary...but. I think Plushenko should have won! I know he had a few mistakes in the LP, but I much preferred his to Yagudin's, and I'm a big Plushenko-hater.

    I thought Goebbel should have been second in the LP behind Plush: therefore, given how 6.0 worked, I think it should have been...1. Plush, 2. Tim, 3. Yag. Plushenko had a more difficult program (technically and artistically), he had better line, posture, musicality, everything...except for a few jump bobbles. Tim was technically the best of that night, but he was below Plush.

    Does anyone else agree w/ me?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike79 View Post
    With Yagudin in first after the SP and Plushenko in 4th he would have had to win the LP and have Yagudin place no higher than 3rd. That pretty much sums up the technical aspect of whether Plushenko should have won.

    When it came down to the programs Yagudin had the more complete programs. Plushenko was Yagudin's equal in the technical department but didn't deliver the goods completely. He fell out of the 3loop on his 4-3-3combo and doubled a Salchow. Yagudin was clean technically with the only iffy part being a slightly forward landing on his 3flip.
    Plushenko was technically superior to Yagudin. Yes, he had two bobbles, but his program was much more difficult: 4-3-3 combo, 3A-1/2-3F combo (Yagudin had only a 3A). Definitely Plushenko was the better jumper while Yagudin was a better spinner (though mediocre).

    What do you mean by ”Considering he skated the most demanding of all Olympic winning performances"? Yagudin, just like Plushenko was a master at frontloading and taking breaks in his programs. Watch his 2002 LP on mute and I am sure you’ll be surprised at how many rests he has (I totally hated the pantomime moments). Probably Goebel had the most difficult program that night.
    And I don’t get the rave about choreography and about “Yagudin the great artist”.
    In my opinion John Curry was truly an artist who radically changed the face of figure skating. Now compare these two.

    In conclusion: Yes, Yagudin deserved to win that competition because Plushenko bombed the SP but Plushenko also did pretty outstanding considering that it was his first Olympics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iloveaxel View Post
    I am not particularly into men's event, no opinion. But I do like Brian !! Brian is the best in figure skating history!!!
    Which one? Boitano or Orser?

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    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Yagudin all the way! And not just because of Pluschenko's fall in the short. I think that Yagudin really did manage to pull his artistic side up to a very high level where Pluschenko has been able to coast on his technical skill.

    Its a shame Yagudin was too injured to continue after SLC, i think he and Pluschenko would have continued to push each other harder and harder, forcin greater technical skills and puhing pluschenko to learn the meaning of choreography and artistry.

    Just to counterbalance, i think calling yags triple flip landed "slightly forward" is atd generous, it wasn't quite Irina's landing on her triple flip but it wasn't far off!

    Also at both Olys and Worlds he skated in a position that meant he could ease off some of the technical content. I think the best perofmance of that LP was at Europeans where it contained both of the quads and both of th trilpe axels as well as beautiful artistry.

    My honest opinion is that the LP order at the Olys should have been:

    1. Yags
    2. Goebel
    3. Plush

    Ant

    Ant

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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post

    Also at both Olys and Worlds he skated in a position that meant he could ease off some of the technical content. I think the best perofmance of that LP was at Europeans where it contained both of the quads and both of th trilpe axels as well as beautiful artistry.


    Ant
    What? Check it again.
    Yags had a lousy LP at the Europeans2002. Sasha Abt should have won that competition.

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    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amber68 View Post
    What? Check it again.
    Yags had a lousy LP at the Europeans2002. Sasha Abt should have won that competition.
    What was lousy about it? I was sure it was the europeans version of Man in the Iron Mask i thought he did the best with the two wauds and the two triple axels...maybe i was thinking o fthe GPF from that season?

    Ant

  13. #13
    Custom Title demarinis5's Avatar
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    Thanks for all your comments. To be truthful I was so caught up in the ladies
    competition that I did not pay much attention to the men's which I regret. I did not realize Plushenko was in 4th after the SP-ouch.

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Good explanatiion by Mike and I agree Plushenko should have been lower after the SP. He somehow got held up. Who were the judges?

    Aside from this competition, Yagudin had come into his own as a stylist (finally) and he would win over Plush in future competitions if his hip didn't give out. JMO

    Joe

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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    What was lousy about it? I was sure it was the europeans version of Man in the Iron Mask i thought he did the best with the two wauds and the two triple axels...maybe i was thinking o fthe GPF from that season?

    Ant
    I surely know that Yags had several jump mistakes but, to make sure I am correct in describing them, I went to youtube to watch the program again.
    Guess what? I couldn't find it! So it must have been bad

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