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- Mar 30, 2006
I have no idea what you just said.
All I am saying is that you are pretty much wrong that Weiss would "get a ton of points" under CoP.
~Z
Yagudin vs. Plushenko
- Thread starter demarinis5
- Start date
I have no idea what you just said.
All I am saying is that you are pretty much wrong that Weiss would "get a ton of points" under CoP.
~Z
I'm sure you're right about this. The problem that I've found is that it has taken too much of the emphasis away from the 'big ticket' items. I agree with CoP in principle but as with anything it's going to have to be tinkered with for quite awhile. I watch men's skating and expect quads, etc. If I wanted 3-2-2 combos I could watch the ladies. At least the ladies have shown that they can technically progress.
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2004
ITA, and so Tarasova. After Alexei finished his program, the camera followed him and you could hear (in Russian of course) between hugging and kissing, Tarasova exclaiming how "smart" he was. She did not say "you are smart for using the elments that you did" but her saying "and how smart you are" implied that.
BTW, Alexei completely deserved this win. I can't even believe some people would argue otherwise.
Weiss was lucky to be there. Matt got robbed at the 2002 Nationals.
I think that Scott Hamilton's commentating sort of denigrates the experience when you listen to the NBC version of the Olympics - he really makes it sound as if Alexei has 'conceded' the long program, so much so to the point that when friends of mine have watched the video post 2002, they end up surprised that it was Plushenko who ended up with silver as opposed to Goebel who is being so hyped!
Alexei didn't hold anything against Scott for it though. He said he understood that Scott had to build a 'drama' for the US viewers.
Alexei didn't hold anything against Scott for it though. He said he understood that Scott had to build a 'drama' for the US viewers.
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- Joined
- Oct 20, 2006
It's true. It astonished me to hear Scott said "tough call" and compared Alexei's program with Goebel's. To me, they were on the different level and incomparable. That is why I was(and still is) wondering if Goebel would be held so high if he were in a different nationality other than US. Good for Alexei! I haven't gotten over this yet.
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- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
Had he not popped the 3 axel at the end he would have been third... according to the judge we sat by during the mens event...
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- Mar 30, 2006
Yes, that's true. But, umm, he DID pop it. That's the point. His 3Axle is not too consistent.
~Z
~Z
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
doesn't matter much now... he's not competiting... I was merely whining about it... I was there and wanted him to go soooooo bad... :no:
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
C'mon a little exaggeration doesn't hurt anyone. Sorry if that offended you. the comparison was to the 6.0 system where he got 0 points and the CoP if were in use at the time, he would get quite a bit of points for the quad and GoE would be taken off for the two foot landing. Not unlike Buttle who gets points for falling.
Joe
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
I like Weiss but I felt it was important for Savoie to get to experience finaly going to a Worlds/Olympics after so long being a key figure in U.S mens skating but never making it to a Worlds or Olympics, years there were 3 spots he was 4th, years there were 2 spots he was 3rd, he was often overlooked by judges in some of those decisions to-I remember 99 Nationals when Goebel missed a bunch of his jumps and pushed Savoie out with his presentation scores(ROTFL!). So I was glad Savoie got to atleast experience the Olympics and Worlds once before he retired.
Actualy a single axel to a triple axel is 7.2 points difference isnt it?
Then you add possable GOE or possable PCS. He was already only roughly 5 points behind Savoie, roughly 7 points behind Lysacek, and roughly 8 points behind Weir as it was(dont remember the exact fractions). So it is not impossable he would have finished 2nd or even 1st had he done it according to just the math. In fact Savoie who was only 2 points behind Lysacek, and 3 points behind Weir, had a fall which cost him atleast 4 points(probably more). All the guys except Weir had mistakes in the short too. Basicaly any of the 4 could have easily won Nationals that year, although if the performances had turned out slightly different perhaps the judges would have manipulated the PCS to make sure Weir and Lysacek were still the top 2.
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- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
I think the idea was had he gone for the 3axel and fallen he would have gotten full credit with the 1 point deduction...
I didn't get into a huge conversation with the judge sitting next to me, he just was pointing out that it was close and all Mike needed was to go for that axel....
not unlike Buttle with the fall on the quad at the olys...
I didn't get into a huge conversation with the judge sitting next to me, he just was pointing out that it was close and all Mike needed was to go for that axel....
not unlike Buttle with the fall on the quad at the olys...
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
Saying a two-footed or failed quad scored no points under 6.0 is misremembering, in the rule book it stated that a fall on a quad (i think a "failed/flawed quad" was the wording) should count for no more than a completed double jump.
We actually will never know what a two footed quad scored under 6.0 because the judges just gave a single mark for technical which never said whther they did or whether they didn't count the quad.
Ant
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- Joined
- Mar 30, 2006
Agreed. Although, I do believe he went to Worlds in 2002 since Todd Eldredge didn't go.
People say Weiss skated pretty poorly in 2002 as well and that Savoie should have gone to that Olympics anyway. I'm not sure because I can't find Weiss's performances anywhere.
While I'm on this track, I'd like to point out that Savoie got ROYALLY screwed at the Olympics. He should have placed 4th place overall, not 7th. His PCS marks were ridiculously low (especially his Transitions!!!!!) and one of his jumps was unfairly downgraded in the long program.
~Z
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
C'mon Z. You've been posting for a while now and you know that some people say this and some people say that, and there is not a poll in figure skating that is accurate. think of the phone in win for a crippled skater.
Michael was and still is a good skater. I agree he was not the best, but I can give you the names of hundreds who I do not think were the best. I contend though that he did well in 2002 SP and was undermarked.
Joe
Michael was and still is a good skater. I agree he was not the best, but I can give you the names of hundreds who I do not think were the best. I contend though that he did well in 2002 SP and was undermarked.
Joe
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2003
Get real, even with a fall in SP Plushenko should be not lower then second, his spins, footwork, speed, skating skills, posture, lines way better then Honda, Goebel and Yagudin, fourth place was a joke. Plushenko LP was much more difficult and much more interesting then Yagudin's LP. Yagudin was so boring and slow in LP, though his SP was good. If NJS would be in place, very possible Plushenko could win whole thing in SLC.
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- Mar 30, 2006
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
Get real, even with a fall in SP Plushenko should be not lower then second, his spins, footwork, speed, skating skills, posture, lines way better then Honda, Goebel and Yagudin, fourth place was a joke. Plushenko LP was much more difficult and much more interesting then Yagudin's LP. Yagudin was so boring and slow in LP, though his SP was good. If NJS would be in place, very possible Plushenko could win whole thing in SLC.
So now Plushenko was supposably underscored in the SLC short program.
Now I have heard it all.Plushenko's spins better then the other top players? Ummm ok.
Plushenko would not have anything under the new judging system. He would have lost 8 points for his combination miss in the short, 4 points for the fall on the first quad, 4 points for the triple toe after that is gone, then GOE he usually gets for his quad combo, then PCS as well. So probably over 10 points lost in all. Then in the long he would have lost 3.6 points for his double salchow late, then possably more in PCS and GOE he would normaly get as well. Then another 2points lost for the quad-triple-triple combo he two footed, plus again possable GOE and PCS. So could be close to another 10 points down in the long from his potential score too.
It is possable he would not have medaled under COP although I suspect the judges would have propped up his PCS enough to give him the silver, no way would he have won gold under either system in SLC.
Get real, even with a fall in SP Plushenko should be not lower then second, his spins, footwork, speed, skating skills, posture, lines way better then Honda, Goebel and Yagudin, fourth place was a joke. Plushenko LP was much more difficult and much more interesting then Yagudin's LP. Yagudin was so boring and slow in LP, though his SP was good. If NJS would be in place, very possible Plushenko could win whole thing in SLC.
Alexei Yagudin was superb in SLC and certainly not boring and apparently (1) the audience agreed because they were on their feet before his program was over in the LP and remained there until his marks came up and (2) the judges agreed because he is the only man to receive all 5.9's and four "6.0's" in skating history.
No amount of spinning is going to change the facts about SLC.Get real, even with a fall in SP Plushenko should be not lower then second, his spins, footwork, speed, skating skills, posture, lines way better then Honda, Goebel and Yagudin, fourth place was a joke. Plushenko LP was much more difficult and much more interesting then Yagudin's LP. Yagudin was so boring and slow in LP, though his SP was good. If NJS would be in place, very possible Plushenko could win whole thing in SLC.
Yes, all of his posing was infinitely more difficult and interesting. Back then Plushenko had a habit of stopping several times during his LP and shaking his head with a grin on his face. It was something that Viktor Petrenko used to do as well, and quite frankly it looked ridiculous. As others have mentioned his spins were terrible back then and he didn't improve them until later years. His footwork was nonexistent in the LP, unlike in his SP where it was fantastic. His skating skills were quite comparable to Yagudin with only his line being a little better. Skating skills-wise Alexander Abt had them both by a mile. Are we to think that he deserved a medal? Your post is more sour grapes and opinion than fact.
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