The thread in which you point out errors by the technical specialist(s)

[Zuranthium]

I'm going to point out a couple that haven't been debated much (like Kimmie's 3/3's, Lambiel's clean 3Axle at Worlds last year, etc). Here's one I just noticed:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CXki1fI8ejo

Look at the spin Johnny does after his Triple Flip. It's a sit spin with a change of foot and two changes of variation. It was graded as a Level 1, however:

http://www.isufs.org/results/owg2006..._SP_Scores.pdf

HUH?

Another from the Olympics, this time from Matt Savoie's program:

http://www.isufs.org/results/owg2006..._FS_Scores.pdf

His first Lutz is called as a double, but look at the program:

(okay, I actually can't find it right now...it seems to have disappeared off Youbtube)

It's clearly a Triple, just double footed.

~Z

[Hsuhs]

Look at the spin Johnny does after his Triple Flip. It's a sit spin with a change of foot and change of position. It was graded as a Level 1, however:

I've analyzed this particular spin since Johnny is my fave and I love his spins. Here is a spin vid I made :

http://rapidshare.com/files/17800048/JWe_Spin.WMV.html

This spin is called Spin Change Foot One Position, its Base Value for Level 1 is 1.3. In the vid Johnny's doing a CSSp (change of foot Sit Spin).

I've also found levels criteria for this kind of spin:
http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/...-0-file,00.pdf

LEVELS OF DIFFICULLTY
Single Skating, Season 2006-2007
Number of features for Levels: 2 for Level 2, 3 for Level 3, 4 for Level 4

Spin in one position with change of foot:

1)1 difficult variations (Johnny's done that)
2) Second difficult variation (counts only if these two variations are on different feet) (this one is arguable)
3) Difficult change of foot (Nope)
3) Backward entrance or variation of flying entrance (not regular flying camel) (Nope)
4) On both edges in one position (on both feet counts twice) (Nope)
5) Both directions immediately following each other (Nope)
(c)

Yes, I think It could have been given Level 2. Depends on what you consider (or don't consider) a "difficult variation". And - of course - on the name of the skater

[Zuranthium]

He DEFINITELY has a second diffucult variation. The first is going into the catch-leg and the second is going into the cannonball.

~Z

[Zuranthium]

I should add that he's doing pretty much the exact same change-of-foot sitspin that I practice right now and that's what made me take notice. I was like "Huh?? I know I'm doing more than a level 1".

~Z

[Hsuhs]

He DEFINITELY has a second diffucult variation. The first is going into the catch-leg and the second is going into the cannonball.

Well, this spin is obviously considered to be a very easy one. Everyone can do it. It's the easiest sit spin with a change of foot, ever

I too would like to know why it was given level 1 (there is no way to find it out, yes?)

[Zuranthium]

I checked the scores for his Worlds performance and he was given a level 2 for the spin there. Although I can't find a video of his short program for Worlds on Youbtube so I'm not sure if he did something different there.

Well, this spin is obviously considered to be a very easy one. Everyone can do it. It's the easiest sit spin with a change of foot, ever.

Are you being sarcastic?

~Z

[Hsuhs]

You can find a DL link on Johnny's angels site:
http://p203.ezboard.com/New-Video-Li...icID=365.topic

I've re-watched the Worlds vid. The spin does look different.

[Zuranthium]

K...I've just watched it too. He had a different arm position in the cannonball portion of his spin but that's it. That alone wouldn't raise the level. I'm pretty sure they simply got it wrong at the Olympics.

~Z

[Zuranthium]

BTW - this is the ruleset I have been using for spins:

http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/...-0-file,00.pdf

The section on spins starts about 75% of the way down. The link you gave is the older rule set, I think.

~Z

[Zuranthium]

Erm, nevermind, yours specifically states it states a 2006-2007 date. OOPS!

Hmm...there's a couple small things I dislike about those rules. If you do a spin with a difficult variation of position, it's still a level 1. You have to do something else to make it level 2. That doesn't make sense.

EDIT: Although, it looks like the rules for last season would indeed have Johnny's spin as a level 1 because two difficult variations were only considered as one element. Bah. I need to write up a perfect system and submit it to the ISU!

~Z

[Hsuhs]

Do you mean this part?

1) 2 difficult variations, including change of foot
(each foot counts separate for the same or different variation)

from: http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/...-0-file,00.pdf

Things are very complicated these days. But it's true - Johnny didn't do 2nd variation in the 1st half of the spin. Meaning he deserved level 1.

[Zuranthium]

No, that rules doesn't mean you need two variations on each foot. What I meant is that rule was only counted as one single element (though it now counts as two) and you needed two elements to get a level 2 spin.

~Z

[Hsuhs]

Can you quote that rule?

[Zuranthium]

Which one. I'm confused now since there are two different systems here!

~Z

[Hsuhs]

The one that was used in 2005/2006 season.

And why were 2 difficult variations counted as one element back then? The rule, as it is now, says nothing about elements, you just need variations.