Thanking U.S. Military Services for Defending Our Freedom

Re: W.O.M.D.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Many thanx for the link. I'm passing it on. Also, love the new moniker and the cadeuceus [/quote]

Your Welcome!!! Thank you!!!

Re: W.O.M.D.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Of course we all know that Saddam is big on democracy -- in the last election he got 100% of the vote.[/quote]
Did he? :lol: Surprise, surprise That reminds me of the very democratic elections in the ex GDR....you would go to the election office, and either you would just take your ballot paper, fold it and throw it into the voting box (=good citizen) or you would take it with a pen and secretly disappear in a cabin so noone would see what you would vite for (=bad citizen.....=betrayer...=public enemy/criminal) : GDR residents would refer to their elections as "lets go folding" :lol:

And yes, Hitler was elected.....more or less democratically. There was a lot of propanganda behind it, some illegal stuff and pressure on other politicians etc ...

Re: W.O.M.D.

Yes, of course Saddam got 100% of the vote and the very efficient ballot counters counted all the millions of them in less than 24 hours, so let's face it, the people love him and he's the best. So what are we doing? pull out and leave them alone, let's let him stay in power because he is such a great leader. Anyone who's idol is J. Stalin is a friend and hero of mine. If I make Adolf my personal hero and promise to imiate him, will you all elect me president with 100% of the vote, please?

By the by, most people here in the US have satellite or cable tv so we can see news from around the world, including the Iraqi daily news. One day alone I watched BBC, Canadian, French, Iraqi, US, Lebanese and news from United Arab Emirates. and as many of you may have heard several of the POW families found out about their sons/daughters being POW's by seeing it on foreign news channels before they were contacted by the US military. One woman saw her son on the phillipine news for instance, another on a spanish language news.

Excuse Me, Your Double-Standard is Showing

Nadya,

This is a thread about supporting our TROOPS, not the government, and I have yet to see one word in your posts about supporting our American Troops.

In this paragraph, I had originally called you on an issue that has no business being on this forum, and Mathman rightfully pointed out that I stepped over the lines of etiquette here, so I am retracting it from this thread, and I apologize to anyone who may have viewed my original words and blown a gasket. That being said, I am sending you a PM with the original post, and I am respectfully asking you to PM me in return and back up your words and actions, so to speak. If there is a gross misunderstanding it needs to be resolved elsewhere in order to preserve the integrity we all would like.

To get back to the original point of this thread, I, like Mmandel, would like to know why, if you are as anti-war, anti-Bush, and anti-American as your posts everywhere indicate, WHY OH WHY would you even bother to look at it, much less post something that is in complete opposition (and sarcastically toned, no less) to the topic?!?! When this happens in skater-related threads, these posters are called trolls!!

I'm really tried to take to heart and listen to what others who disagree with my leanings on this subject have to say, but when I have discovered discrepancies and actions that undermine credibility, I have far less tolerance and respect for what that person may say or do.

Re: Excuse Me, Your Double-Standard is Showing

I have to agree with Sk8Cynic. The intent of the thread was to give support to our troops during their time of need. I see the content of this thread being skewed and the perception that is comming across to me is truly anti-american.

Sk8Cynic, Please correct me if i'm wrong. But, Sk8Cynic is asking for clarification of Nadya's political stance behind her statements and how they relate to supporting our American Troops. I don't see how that would offend anyone.

Re: Excuse Me, Your Double-Standard is Showing

Sk8Cynic, I am afraid that your post has crossed the line between disagreeing with what a fellow poster has written and making a personal attack on that poster. I don't think that it serves any purpose to bring fights from other boards here to Golden Skate.

Mathman

Re: Excuse Me, Your Double-Standard is Showing

Mathman,

My apologies for not walking away until I calmed down before posting.

I have removed the paragraphs referencing non-GS issues from my original post. You were absolutely right in that subject had no business being here, and I was out of line for dragging that in. Given the apparent anger in those words, it is easy to see how my post could be perceived as an attack.

That being said, my intent was to question Nadya's motives, her intent, and her credibility. If that is considered to be attacking a poster, I must respectfully disagree with that definition. We do this all the time on skating related threads. If someone's going to put their words out there, they should be prepared to stand by them and defend them when challenged, retract them if not meant, or admit they made a mistake when proven so. I'm not saying that Nadya has been accused, tried, convicted, and sentenced, nor is she a criminal, nor is she wrong for her beliefs about the war. I am, however, asking her to stand by her words, as I have stood by and defended mine (all in all too many words, if you ask me! ), have no problem admitting when I have made mistakes, or apologized when I have been out of line.

As I said before, my words and tone WERE sharp, and the forum reference was wrong, and I have addressed both. Once again, my apologies for not following my own advice about calming down before posting.

Re: Excuse Me, Your Double-Standard is Showing

I'm still awaiting for the discovery of the Weapons of Mass Destruction! That was the main reason for the US to declare war on Iraq.

As for liberating the Iraqi people - there does not appear to be any rush by the people themselves. the death tolls are mounting and the war is not over so quickly.

My question now is Should the US invade Myamar and liberate the Burmese people and destroy the anti democratic Government?

Joe

Re: Excuse Me, Your Double-Standard is Showing

of course they should Joe, but first we must take care of Canada and France! Sacre bleu!

Re: Excuse Me, Your Double-Standard is Showing

Cynic, I re-read this thread and even though I did not comment on the original topic, all of my comments were related to topics posted by others before - I'm not the only one. I don't exactly get what you mean....<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif ALT=":\">

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>That being said, I am sending you a PM with the original post, and I am respectfully asking you to PM me in return and back up your words and actions, so to speak. If there is a gross misunderstanding it needs to be resolved elsewhere in order to preserve the integrity we all would like. [/quote]
I haven't received anything yet - have you PMed me yet?

As for supporting your troops - of course I don't want anyone being killed, and of course I want them all to stay safe and healthy, but I thought that was natural, so I didn't particularly point that out. Again, all of my posts in this thread were referring to something other users had said before.

Re: Thanking U.S. Military Services for Defending Our Freedo

Oh, and by the way, never ever did I say I was Anti-American. I guess I made it clear here and/or in other threads, that I'm very much against the PNAC and their kinds of politics, but I never said I was generally against anything American. Just wanted to clarify this...

Re: Excuse Me, Your Double-Standard is Showing

Hi, Sk8Cynic. Thanks for your response. But...<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>(M)y intent was to question Nadya's motives, her intent, and her credibility. If that is considered to be attacking a poster, I must respectfully disagree with that definition. We do this all the time on skating related threads.[/quote]I <strong>do</strong> consider questioning a person's <em>motives, intent and credibility</em> to be attacking the poster rather than debating the post. If you see anyone doing that on skating related threads, please bring it to my attention.

Mathman

Re: Excuse Me, Your Double-Standard is Showing

Mathman and Nadya,

I will respond to both of your posts tomorrow. I spent the better part of last night and part of today in the ER and doctor's offices today with what I thought was a migraine but turned out to be a raging sinus and double ear infection. Needless to say, my mood and frame of mind this evening are not up to the task, and I want to respond when I am at my best (or at least, better than I am tonight).

Thanks for your patience.

Re: Excuse Me, Your Double-Standard is Showing

I hope you feel better, Sk8Cynic. God bless our troops in foreign lands.

Mathman

Re: Excuse Me, Your Double-Standard is Showing

Mathman,

After reading the posts over several times, I don't see that Cynic is attacking a poster. He is asking for a clarification to what the poster stated and/or what prompted the poster to write the post in the manner she did. I really can't see that as attacking a poster.

I don't believe there is any malicious intent by Cynic.

Manny.

Re: Excuse Me, Your Double-Standard is Showing

Alright, Cynic, I probably won't be online until about tomorrow evening anyway, so take your time and get well soon.

Re: Excuse Me, Your Double-Standard is Showing

Bless the troops and damn the people who got us into this unnecessary blood bath overseas.

Sk8xynic - How's that?

Joe

Re: Excuse Me, Your Double-Standard is Showing

Manny, I think that there are two points that need clarification.

First, if I start a thread entitled, "Michelle's the greatest!" it is perfectly appropriate for the next poster to come on board and say, "No, she's not, Irina is!" Although this response does not follow the expectation and hope of the person who started the thread, well, that's life on the internet.

Joe's last comment, for instance, is very much "on topic" even though it is a long way from what you envisioned when you started this thread. No problem so far.

But second, we do need to distinguish between discussing the post and discussing the poster. It is easy to tell the difference. Read your post. If the subject of your sentence is "troops" or "war" or "Iraq" or "weapons of mass destruction" or "George Bush" or "Saddam Hussein," then you are discussing (or perhaps broadening) the topic.

But if the subject of your sentence is "Nadya" or "Joe" or "you" then you are discussing the poster, not the post.

Mathman

Re: Excuse Me, Your Double-Standard is Showing

Going to give this a try and see how it goes....

First off, thank you to Mathman and Nadya for their well-wishes for feeling better. While I still feel pretty terrible right now, it doesn't feel like someone crammed a couple of meat thermometers in my ears anymore. Guess that's what I get for moving back to a city with a 3600 pollen count (3627 today, expected to rise tomorrow).

Secondly: Joe, I have no problem with your post at all, though I disagree with your opinion that it is 'unnecesary' and that it is a 'bloodbath'. You have always remained true to your beliefs and feelings about this war, and though you and I are on opposite ends of the spectrum about the reasons behind it, the propriety of it, etc., etc. (no need to rehash all of that), you have never denied anyone their right to express their opinions about it. Which gives me a great segue into my next point.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>(W)e do need to distinguish between discussing the post and discussing the poster. It is easy to tell the difference. Read your post. If the subject of your sentence is "troops" or "war" or "Iraq" or "weapons of mass destruction" or "George Bush" or "Saddam Hussein," then you are discussing (or perhaps broadening) the topic.

But if the subject of your sentence is "Nadya" or "Joe" or "you" then you are discussing the poster, not the post.[/quote]

This is where it gets tricky. Trying to explain myself without referring to the subject matter now removed from this thread is not going to be easy, but I will do my best. It is one thing to post a differing opinion on a thread, be it skating related or not. It is an entirely different ballgame when a person denies someone a right to express their opinion and then turns around and superimposes their own opinion on that same topic thread. One could make the defense that since the denial of expression and eventual banning did not occur here at GS, it is irrelevant here. Had Nadya left this PARTICULAR thread at GS alone altogether, my perceived attack on her would never have even occurred.

That being said, Nadya did post on this thread, which IMO is an incredible insult to Mmandel, and as a result of posting here, she left the door open for criticism. I, like most people who belong to GS, go to many different skating forums, and when questionable actions and words by someone occur that contradict what is posted here, I guess I do have a problem with that, especially when the person in question is a moderator for another forum and in somewhat of a position of cyber-authority.

Nadya's actions elsewhere sent a message of "we don't care about political opinions, and we aren't going to allow you to express them, especially since we don't agree with them." When Mmandel questioned this decision, he was banned, and then she turned around and started posting on the very same thread, except the thread was here at GS. What I did was call her on that, and since I didn't sugar-coat my point and question to Nadya, it has now been perceived as an attack, where I view it as challenging her to stand up and defend her words and actions.

GS maintains a high degree of integrity in cyber-skateland, and its members are as a whole, informed, intelligent, insightful, humorous, and of course, a little crazy, especially in March , and when situations like this come up, that high degree of integrity could potentially be compromised. I understand that since the source of this whole debacle did not occur here, some might feel that this topic has no business being discussed here in Off-Topic; however, I did not open up the can of worms, so to speak. The can was opened by Nadya's words and actions, and I merely turned on the light so everyone could see the can. If that is a sin, then I guess I am guilty.



Re: Excuse Me, Your Double-Standard is Showing

Glad to hear you're feeling a little better, Cynic. I am in great sympathy with the pollen count thing (although mine doesn't start up until August). In fact, I am just this week installing air conditioning in my house. It was built in 1927 and has steam heating (no forced air), so that's kind of a big deal. They have to tear up the walls, etc. It's driving my wife (and hence me) crazy.

Nadya, how about unbanning Mmandel? Whatever you or he thinks about the war, he is such a nice person (as one can tell by his posts) that I can't imagine him saying anything in an offensive way.

OK, I'm out of here. What do I know?

Mathman