If and When I Offend........ | Golden Skate

If and When I Offend........

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sk8cynic

Guest
If and When I Offend........

If you have read my thread titled "Strictly Aesthetically Speaking" (of something like that :p ), you will see that I have been informed that my former signature post about France and the UN offended some of the members. I am currently in the process with my outdated 26K modem of trying to find and remove the signature lines. If anyone finds a random one after tonight, please let me know and I will gladly remove it.

I realize that I am very passionate about my opinions, especially when it pertains to world politics, but if I ever offend anyone here with something that I have posted, please PM me and let me know. Joe and Paula have enough on their hands without having to police every little inflammatory comment that shows up here on the boards.

The last thing I intend to do is upset or offend anyone with my comments and opinions, but I realize that it is at times this is unavoidable.

If I have upset or offended you, please, please, please take it to me first, and if we can't resolve things, then it is time for the administrators to get involved.

Once again, I apologize for the offense. However, I stand behind my beliefs.

-sk8cynic
 
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Show 42

Guest
Re: If and When I Offend........

........sk8cynic.......there is nothing wrong with having convictions that you strongly believe in.....:) 42
 
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Joesitz

Guest
Re: If and When I Offend........

Sk8cynic - Your convictions are your own and when put into the proper forum should be open for debate.

Some of us are just left over 1960 Peaceniks, and certainly the present situation has divided the country.

You are in the right thread.

Joe
 
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sk8cynic

Guest
Re: If and When I Offend........

It's tough......although raised as a staunch Democrat, I was also raised to be a staunch patriot. When you take those factors and add in the fact that I have a ridiculous number of family members who serve(d) in the military and fought in WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and Operation Desert Storm, plus someone actively involved in Operation Enduring Freedom, you may be able to see why my feelings are so twitchy about this subject matter. I only hope that regardless of your feelings about our government in a war that is likely to start this week, that our friends and family members there will have support...... I don't want a repeat of Vietnam in any respect, and the way a lot of war protesters in the 60's treated soldiers back then didn't really set too well in my book. I only pray that doesn't happen again.
 
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Kara Bear

Guest
Re: If and When I Offend........

theres a signature left in the sasha cheering thread in the worlds folder
 
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sk8cynic

Guest
Re: If and When I Offend........

Kara,

Thank you for bringing it to my attention. It has been removed.

Joe,

In response to your adamant requests:

I spent the better part of yesterday evening removing my signature from posts, both in skating and non-skating related threads.

Given that the phone lines where I live allow me to operate at between 26K and 31K, removing all of these is a time-consuming process. That having been said, understand that I am not ignoring your request, as you apparently think I have.

Also, I have not received any feedback saying that my former signature was offensive, and in fact have received only support and praise for my position and strength of conviction, I think the only person offended by my signature is you.

Consequently, Fetal Attraction had a signature line for MONTHS that slammed religion. Didn't really see anyone come down on him for that. In fact, he finally got suspended only when he made an offensive post about Michelle Kwan. Heavens, that's REAL anarchy and treason in the skating world., never mind Iraq.

Furthermore, I cannot help but feel that if my signature line had been expressing disdain for Bush and opposition to the impending war, there would never have been any brou-ha-ha about what it said.

Best that I can tell, I have removed my signature from all recent skating threads. Like I said in this thread, if you see one, tell me where it is and I will gladly remove it. I expect, however, that if ANY political comments, inference, or the like appear in ANY skating threads - be they pro or anti whatever, they will be handled by the same standards I have been ordered to adhere to.

Thank you,
 
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mathman444

Guest
Re: If and When I Offend........

Hi, SkateCynic. Keep on postin'. Don't let the old peaceniks like me and Joe get you down. Yes, this is a divisive issue. But the people on Golden Skate are mature enough to understand the difference between disagreeing with someone's opinion and disliking the poster. You have presented your case well and have made points that are hard to refute, even by people such as myself who even now hope for a miracle.

Golden Skate has more than 1000 registered members and many more regular or occasional viewers. There is no doubt that many of them share your views and are grateful to you for standing by them, whether they take the time to say so or not.

And like you say, if you REALLY want to start a fight, just say that Sasha's Ina Bauer is better than Michelle's.

Mathman
 
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Jules Asner

Guest
Re: If and When I Offend........

what do you mean Sasha's Ina Bauer is better than Michelle's? HOW DARE YOU? are you blind? :mad: :mad: :mad:
just kidding.:rollin:
 
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Ladskater

Guest
Re: If and When I Offend........

Jules Asner:

But it is!!! There now I will start a Michelle vs. Sasha war.

Ladskater
 
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nysk8r

Guest
Re: If and When I Offend........

Both of you are wrong, wrong, wrong!!!!!!!! :mad:

Sarah Hughes has the best ina bauer :p
 
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rgirl181

Guest
Re: If and When I Offend........

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Consequently, Fetal Attraction had a signature line for MONTHS that slammed religion. Didn't really see anyone come down on him for that. In fact, he finally got suspended only when he made an offensive post about Michelle Kwan. Heavens, that's REAL anarchy and treason in the skating world, never mind Iraq.[/quote] How true and how sad.
Rgirl
 
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Joesitz

Guest
Re: If and When I Offend........

Sk8cynic - You didn't see the private mail regarding Fetal. I miss him, too. But he should have put his feelings in the Off Topic and not make a signature of them.

I will miss you too if you leave. You have a lot to offer regarding figure skating. Your points of having a war are well taken but at least half the other posters believe in Peace! That's the way the country is divided.

Cheer up, though. I believe your wish will come true.

Joesitz
 
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maxell1313

Guest
Re: If and When I Offend........

Sk8Cynic: I agree with everything you've said.

Joesitz: Even those of us that support what's going on in Iraq want the ultimate goal to be peace. Anyone that just likes fighting all the time needs to be locked in a room with nothing but John Tesh and Yanni CD's. (My apologies to those who enjoy the music of John Tesh and Yanni.) It breaks my heart to see people with no food, no roof over their heads and no clothes on their backs. There are people in our own country with these problems who need help, but at least that help IS available. What about those places where they can't get enough to eat and have no shelter?

I don't think that we'll ever know exactly what kind of help the Iraqi people want or need until they get the opportunity to speak up without fear of retaliation. No one wants to see innocent civilians die here. More than anything I want them to live in freedom, able to live and worship as they choose. I think the only way that's going to happen is if Saddam is taken out of the equation.

My opinion....
 
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rgirl181

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Re: If and When I Offend........

(This message was left blank)
 
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sk8cynic

Guest
Re: If and When I Offend........

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>You didn't see the private mail regarding Fetal. I miss him, too.[/quote]

Whether or not I miss Fetal was not the point I was trying to make. It just seems that on this site that in recent months there has been a rather nasty double standard evolving regarding what offensive remarks get the voodoo hex and which don't. I mean, come on, we all know that religion is one of the biggest hot buttons in this country, and his signature was visible for months. My point is that there has got to be some consistency about doling out reprimands.

Also, I would really appreciate it if you would edit your post in the topic War and ABC (I think that's the title) with regard to the "If that dumb war starts" comment. I find that a little disturbing, and though I don't get the idea that anyone here really feels this impending war is dumb, you pointed out to me that we are not the only ones that view this forum. I'm not discounting your feelings about this situation, just merely saying that description wasn't really necessary.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Cheer up, though. I believe your wish will come true.
[/quote]

I'm going to pretend I didn't hear that. If you think that for one minute I WANT a war and that I should be happy about this, then you apparently haven't heard a damn thing I have said. I am absolutely sickened that it has come down to this, and if that is what your intent was with that comment, I think it shows a serious character defect in your makeup if you feel anyone would be looking forward to it.

When everything hit the fan at the first of the year about all the vitriol, someone here suggested that if you're fired up about a topic and respond while in that frame of mind, it's a good idea to wait a little bit and read back through your comment before posting it to the thread. Not to rebuke a moderator, but if your comment was not meant to come off that way, it should have been phrased more concisely.

Got to walk away for a little while as I'm getting fired up , myself.
 
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Joesitz

Guest
Re: If and When I Offend........

Sk8cynic - My use of the term 'dumb' in that post was only to express my feeling that something might ruin the Worlds. I can understand how it was misinterpreted, and I will indeed take it out. But you will see in many of my posts I use the term dumb as Charlie Brown would use Drats.

Sorry, about assuming you would be pleased with the war. I do apologize.

I am hoping you understand that politics, religion, ethnicity, nationality, and sexuality are all sensitive subjects. Why the need to bring them up in the first place? We do have young figure skating fans who read GS. There is so much discussion and yes, arguments and tirades about figure skating. That's plenty. But Le Cafe is there for all of us to sound off on non skating issues.

Joe
 
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sk8cynic

Guest
Re: If and When I Offend........

Thank you for editing out the word 'dumb.' In and of itself it's fine, but like you said, the impending war is a very sensitive issue. Lke you have said, political statements, comments, etc., belong in the cafe, and that was in The Edge.

There are a number of members here (myself included) that often don't re-read before posting to minimize the chance that their comments will be misinterpreted. I'm working on that, as well as taking a break and calming down when I have read something that sends me into orbit. It helps, and I recommend it to everyone.
 
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rgirl181

Guest
Re: If and When I Offend........

I was going to post this early this morning, but I wanted to wait and go over it again to make sure the wording said what I meant. Well, what a difference eight hours makes:lol: Have decided to post this anyway, just to show that Cynic is not alone in her views. Just to be clear, I'm not trying to get on your case just to annoy you, Joe (although after reading your apology on that other thread, I feel awful about this:( ). But I think there are some issues here that warrant consideration. Remember, this was written yesterday.

Joe,
I think you're missing the point. First let me say that I absolutely agree that Cynic's signature was inappropriate and that it was right that she be asked to remove it. What I have a problem with is the way you handled the situation when all the signatures didn't immediately disappear and your continued attitude toward Cynic. To summarize the situation: Starting on March 15, Cynic had a signature that said, "The UN is about as effective as a traffic cop on valium!!! -Can I interest you in a vintage French Whine?" As far as I can tell, you posted her on the 16th that it was inappropriate and a few hours later, she posted that she had removed the signature. Unfortunately, because of a computer situation, Cynic had to remove each signature individually. This caused a delay in Cynic being able to remove all the signatures, although most of them were removed within about six hours of your initial post telling her to remove the signature. When you found a couple of posts that still had the signature, rather than PM Cynic to find out if there was a problem, you posted what I considered to be very heavy handed and accusatory "warnings" to her, eg, "Get your political signature out of the skating threads and into the Off Topic Le Cafe. We can see a barage of counter points to this and it is not about skating. Last warning." Even though Cynic was removing the signatures as quickly as possible, apparently you assumed she was not obeying your directive. However, I guess you never bothered to PM her to find out what the problem was. This is what I find problematic and inappropriate.

Also, Cynic never said she missed Fetal. She was simply comparing the way Fetal's inappropriate signature was treated compared to hers. You never posted bombastic warnings within 24 hours of your first notice to Fetal on the forum for him to remove his signature; it was all done via PMs. The point is: Why wasn't the same courtesy of using PMs afforded to Cynic?

And why the sarcasm in your post to Cynic,ie, "Cheer up, though. I believe your wish will come true" regarding the war? I sincerely doubt that Cynic is "wishing" for war. She simply supports the President's position. Also, why would you not allow Cynic to use the signature, "I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it"?

Joe, believe me, I have the utmost respect and appreciation for the unpaid and often thankless job the moderators do, but I hope you will be able to accept and consider what I intend as constructive criticism of the way you handled this situation. BTW, my decision to broach this subject with you was not just this situation, but also because of several others as well. It's just my opinion and I'm sure you will get other responses who disagree with me. And of course it's easy for me to look at something with 20/20 hindsight and say what should have been done. I wanted to discuss this with you privately, but as you know, I PM'd you about this several days ago and you never responded. (I'm now wondering if you missed it because of the new PM system. If so, sorry.) But I would still like to suggest that after a moderator asks that something in a post be immediately removed that you or anybody also PM the person and give them a couple of days to respond before posting notices accusing them of noncompliance. Not everyone checks in to GS every day and not everyone checks every post.

As far as Cynic's views on a war with Iraq are concerned, I'm sure Cynic is quite aware of how the country is divided and that other posters disagree with her. At least in Le Cafe, it was my understanding that differing views about the war are accepted, as long as they are stated with respect for others' opinions, which I (and apparently others) feel Cynic did. Also, Cynic never said she might leave, so why the section on "you have much to offer" etc.?

There is another issue I had written about when I started this that changed this morning when you finally edited out the "dumb" from your "dumb war" reference on the "ABC and the War!" thread--seven days after Maxell pointed out that it was inappropriate and did not belong in "The Edge." Kudos, to you Joe for editing out the "dumb," espcially since I found your use of "dumb war" to be a double standard regarding the way you treated Cynic. When Cynic posted on 3/16/03 that she had removed the signature you replied, "Thank you Cynic. Nothing wrong with your political beliefs but it doesn't belong with figure skating." I agree, absolutely, but at the time you wrote that, you had included the less obvious but IMO equally offensive "dumb war" political comment on 3/12/03, ie, "Anyone have any news if that dumb war starts that ABC will be entitled to pre-empt their regularly schecluded programs?" Two hours later, Maxell responded, "Not everyone considers it a 'dumb war.' Political threads go in the off-topic forum." Of course I'm glad you edited out the "dumb," but why did it take you seven days? You were reprimanding Cynic about her signature in a pretty heavy duty way less than 24 hours after you first noted it. I'm just trying to point out that lately I've been seeing a double standard in some of the ways you've chosen to moderate the forum. I hope you know that as b****y as all this may sound, I say it in all support as someone who considers you a friend.

As for what you wrote in today's post: "Why bring politics up at all?" Why did you start a thread about ABC possibly pre-empting Worlds because of "this dumb war"? There was nothing anybody could do about it, so why go bring it up? The reason, IMO, is that people like to get out their frustrations. You understand and enjoy your own "venting" posts, and others have their reasons for "venting." Besides, Cynic started removing the political signature as soon as you posted her on it.

Anyway, I don't agree with Cynic's views on a US war with Iraq, but as long as her posts are in Le Cafe I absolutely support her and anybody else's right to voice their opinions about the war. I know you have an often difficult and thankless job as a moderator, Joe, but in this case, I think you might want to think about how you handled this situation. I realize this is a sticky situation since this is a case where a forum member disagrees with the way a moderator has been handling a situation. In any case, I hope you take this in the spirit in which it is intended: Constructive criticism and food for thought. Also, I think it would go a long way toward resolving this whole situation if you apologized to Cynic. It's up to you, of course, but I hope you come to that conclusion.
Rgirl
 
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Grgranny

Guest
Re: If and When I Offend........

Well, I hadn't said much about Fetal's Jesus Museum thing but I was really disgusted that no one had made him remove it for such a very long time. I try not to complain about things as I know others evidently didn't care but it still gets my dander up. DEFINITELY.
 
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mathman444

Guest
Re: If and When I Offend........

Rgirl, but even so, I'm not sure that all this adds up to a "serious character defect in [Joe's] makeup."

Mathman
 
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