If and When I Offend........ | Page 2 | Golden Skate

If and When I Offend........

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rgirl181

Guest
Re: If and When I Offend........

Mathman,
I don't think any of this adds up to even a minor defect in Joe's character. (Where's your quote from?) I think Joe's character is great. I have some disagreements with the way he handled a series of things. Admittedly, I was ambivalent as to whether I should have posted this. Ultimately, I decided to post it because I hope it will generate some thought and/or discussion about what one does when one feels the moderators are mismoderating (if that's a word). Maybe whatever the moderators say or do goes? Or maybe we should discuss what posters should do if they feel they've been treated unfairly by a moderator.

But as far as I'm concerned, this has nothing to do with Joe's character. It has to do with a disagreement over how certain things were handled.
Rgirl
 
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sk8cynic

Guest
Re: If and When I Offend........

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I think it shows a serious character defect in your makeup if you feel anyone would be looking forward to it.
[/quote]

Mathman,

You are right. I think I was looking at that one from the wrong angle. The true defect of character are the whack jobs that do gleefully anticipate military actions, looking forward to all the carnage.

Once again, it's that whole thing I posted about. If I had taken the time to read back through what I wrote after taking a breather, I'd have caught that one. I was incredibly hurt and angry that he would lump me into that category, and I was very reactionary when I wrote it. I guess you could call it even, but we're both evenly hurt and angered over this whole debacle.

Part of why I flipped on that one was the fact that I had, and to a large degree, still have a lot of respect for Joe. He's got some great insights, puts great topic threads that spark good dialogue and banter, and busts his ass here at GS as a moderator, but I must agree and back up Rgirl with respect to her concerns about a double standard starting to exist here. I thought I was being over sensitive until I read her post.

That having been said, I must go. I am completely drained from dealing with two wars, neither of which I am happy about.
 
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WindSpirit5

Guest
Re: If and When I Offend........

Well, I'm a little late... I wasn't offended by your signature (even though I didn't agree with it at all), but I do believe that things like that belong here in Off Topic. Yes, Fetal had his sig for months, but it's in the past now. I mean, if that was a mistake on the moderators' part (and I think it was), they seem to have learned from it. This is how I see it. IMO they didn't deliberately put up with it (as in didn't at all care about it), it was more like testing how "loose" (for lack of the word) posters can be here at GS. Maybe they hated the idea of putting up barriers (there's some melancholy to it, isn't it?), but learned the sad truth it's inevitable.

I'm sorry you were hurt, I hope you'll get over it soon, and that you're not going anywhere. I admire the restraint you've shown (knowing how emotional it was for you), having been around the boards and newsgroups for a few years I know it's rather rare. Btw, I love Eddie Izzard! :)
 
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shadair

Guest
Re: If and When I Offend........

I don't get involved in political arguments. My opinions are mine and I don't usually share them. You can call me your resident Pollyanna. :) (That might be a good custom title for me)

A wise man once said:


"On another thread Paula (GS administrator GS8 ) reminded us that she spends most of her time researching and writing news stories and articles, arranging and conducting interviews, preparing the newsletter, responding to email, etc. This means that she has a right to expect that the Forum will pretty much police itself, following rules of common courtesy. As Joe says, it does not rise to the level of a First Amendment issue if we take a minute to ask ourselves,

"Gee, maybe this post that I'm about to write is going to sound nasty and mean to a lot of people. Maybe another person will feel that I have belittled his or her opinion or assaulted a value systems that he or she holds dear. Maybe I can make my point a little differently. Or maybe I should save it and post on one of those "anything goes" discussion groups instead." " Thanks, Mathman

I realize that this was concerning a different matter entirely but it can hold true for war debates, political debates or skating debates.

There's enough tension in the world right now. Looks like there should be some place to escape some of that.
 
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rgirl181

Guest
Re: If and When I Offend........

Shadair,
I'm glad you rekindled Mathman's post. I know this thread has several subtopics, but as far as my issue is concerned, I am just hoping that the moderators will keep these same words in mind when they have to tell someone something is inappropriate and in general. I know, I'm the anti-Pollyanna;)
Rgirl
 
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FetalAttraction

Guest
Re: If and When I Offend........

This is the first thread I've read since getting suspended from Golden Skate. I might go into more detail on why I ignored GS after the hysteria that was my suspension. But now I'm back, kinda.

I was informed that some of ya'll be talkin' 'bout me in this thread by a little anonymous bird. Since I like some of ya'll on this thread, and I can offer information pertaining to the going on's, I'm going to chime in just this one time.

I took plenty of [crap] for my signature line. Paula PMed me to make me stop linking to my darling website. So I found other ways to express my opinions on religion, which were met with post after post of vitriol, that some of ya'll here apparently never read or just forgot. I had member after member telling me in posts that I'd descend into the fiery pits of hell to be made a smore for all eternity. I don't know if Paula PMed them. Suffice it to say, the religious thing caused plenty of upset on this board. I don't know why you guys thinks it didn't. Maybe ya'll have faith that the past never happened.

By the way, these days I mostly post on the Michelle Kwan Forum, which has ironically become less restrictive than GS. Now, that, my friends, is a board filled with warmongers with little tolerance for other opinions. Some of you hawks might find a nice nest there. Although, of course, I'm there to shake up the tree. My real home, though, is the Uncensored Forum. That board is truly about a free exchange of ideas and information. For fans of mine, and I know there are lots, who want to check up on my latest writings, follow the
Fetal Attraction profile. It contains links to all my latest posts.

Peace/war out!
 
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Joesitz

Guest
Re: If and When I Offend........

Fetal - The Uncensored Forum is fabulous. I went to take a peek and stayed for an hour giggling.

Joe
 
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rgirl181

Guest
Re: If and When I Offend........

Fetal,
Just to clarify, Cynic was making the comparison that you didn't get posts from any of the moderators telling you to remove your religious signature for months, while she got two very pointed warnings within 24 hours that she had not removed her signature, even though it was just because she had a computer problem. If anybody doesn't remember the tons of fire and brimstone you got from a certain poster (a few others of us also got a taste of it, though we didn't get the tonnage), then they weren't reading GS.

You know I love having you back, but since you haven't been following things, I have a great way for handling such situations;) : Familiarize yourself with what's going on before you make assumptions--otherwise, things will get all fun and exciting around here again:p
Rgirl
 
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sk8m8

Guest
Re: If and When I Offend........

Rgirl, YOU'RE my Auntie Polyanna, please write home. All your family misses you.:eek:
 
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rgirl181

Guest
Re: If and When I Offend........

That's odd, Sk8m8. According to some people, I'm Auntie Michelle. But they sure as hell don't miss me:lol:

But these folks are mistaken anyway. I'm just plain old Auntie Cinquanta:smokin:
Rgirl
 
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Kasey

Guest
Re: If and When I Offend........

I am sure that I have some opinions I could share that would piss off and polarize folks here as well! Not just regarding war, but various skaters, types of foods, etc. Heck, isn't that what makes us unique?

Just so you, I have been reading the posts here for a week or so before starting to post myself, and I haven't been offended....to each their own.

Kasey
 
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rgirl181

Guest
Re: If and When I Offend........

Another George Carlin fan. Cool!
Rgirl
 
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Joesitz

Guest
Re: If and When I Offend........

rGirl - You are out of order and absolutely wrong to make false statements!!! I was the only moderator at the time and I did send PM to Fetal to delete or change the signature piece. Don't ever start rumors like that again. Cynic did get a PM too.

Also your defence interventions does not cover everyone in the forum but only those you choose. That's ok, but let it be known that you do this.

Joesitz
 
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Mathman3

Guest
Re: If and When I Offend........

Joe, I think you're being too hard on Rgirl. I think that (for once ;) ) she was trying to be a peacemaker on this thread, or at least trying to clear up misunderstandings of previous posts.

One big happy.

Mathman
 
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rgirl181

Guest
Re: If and When I Offend........

Joe,
You said in your post,
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>rGirl - You are out of order and absolutely wrong to make false statements!!! I was the only moderator at the time and I did send PM to Fetal to delete or change the signature piece. Don't ever start rumors like that again. Cynic did get a PM too.[/quote] I think perhaps you misread my post to Fetal. I'd appreciate it if you reread it and also read the post by Fetal I was responding to. <blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Fetal, Just to clarify, Cynic was making the comparison that you didn't get posts from any of the moderators telling you to remove your religious signature for months, while she got two very pointed warnings within 24 hours that she had not removed her signature, even though it was just because she had a computer problem. If anybody doesn't remember the tons of fire and brimstone you got from a certain poster (a few others of us also got a taste of it, though we didn't get the tonnage), then they weren't reading GS.[/quote] Note that it says, "Cynic was making the comparison that you [Fetal] didn't get <strong>posts</strong> from any of the moderators telling you to remove your religious signature for months, while she got two very pointed warnings within 24 hours that she had not removed her signature..." I never said you didn't send Fetal any PMs. I know you sent him many PMs, but I was addressing a single and specific issue in this post. Also, I never said you didn't send Cynic any PMs. In a previous post, I <em>asked</em> if you had sent her a PM, but that's all. (I never got a reply from you on that, not that you were obligated to do so.) I'm sorry if I didn't explain the entire situation with both Fetal and Cynic adequately, but I think for you to say that I was starting "rumors" is incorrect and unfair. This is the second time since Friday ("Sasha's Programs" re my response to Realistic, see link)that you've blown up over a post I've written and accused me, basically, of trying to make trouble. pub94.ezboard.com/fgolden...81&stop=95
I apologized online for any misunderstandings the post replying to Realistic on the "Sasha's Programs" thread might have caused and promised not to post again on that issue. I also apologized for several things and tried to explain my POV to you via PM.

You also wrote: <blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I was the only moderator at the time..."[/quote] I'm sorry if I was mistaken, but I was going by the information on the "Moderators and Hosts" link under "Forum Info" on the main page, which is the same information in the following post from Paula in the Feedback folder:
pub94.ezboard.com/fgolden...D=53.topic
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>GSK8
Administrator
ezSupporter
Forum Moderators
Posted: 4/28/02 12:07:39 pm
Currently, the below hold the following positions:

Joesitz - Forum Moderator
SkateDustin - Forum Moderator
sk8ing lady2001 - Forum Moderator
sk8wave - Forum Host[/quote] I've never been able to find a post or anything in the forum guidelines stating a change from that policy, although I know that new moderators were chose about a month ago. If I missed an announcement that you were the only moderator or should have known by some other means, I'm sorry. I know you always did virtually all the moderating work; I was just trying to be accurate and fair to who I thought were the other moderators. My mistake.

Finally you said: <blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Also your defence interventions does not cover everyone in the forum but only those you choose. That's ok, but let it be known that you do this.[/quote] Of course in those cases where I feel an individual poster has been misunderstood, misquoted, or mistreated in a serious enough way that I should say something it's a person I choose. Everybody "chooses" whom they defend. Some chose to defend Fetal in his situation while others chose to defend Paula in her position on that matter. However, for one thing, I haven't just defended individuals; I've also defended the forum as a whole on a number of occasions, most recently: "As for your feeling that there are frequent group bashings of individual posters on GS, with that I mus disagree. Having been around for years, I don't think I've ever seen a true group bashing."
pub94.ezboard.com/fgolden...81&stop=95
Ultimately, I'm just stating my opinion.

I have my point of view on things, Joe, just as you and everyone does. But if you think I have a "list" of only certain people I "defend" and a "list" of those I won't, or that I would only defend posters who agree with my point of view, you couldn't be more wrong. To go to what I think is at the heart of the matter, if I saw a Kwan fan being misunderstood, misquoted, or mistreated, I would say something about it. In fact, I have. Back in January, when Apache Apache started a thread entitled "Michelle's Spins"
pub94.ezboard.com/fgolden...=1&stop=20
a few posters then and previously had suggested that Apache was starting negative threads about Michelle. I felt some people misunderstood where Apache was coming from and tried to gently address the situation. Since Apache quoted me in his response, I will list his post here. However I've also provided the link to the entire page of posts, which includes mine, so you and others can read it if they wish. In fact, I wish you would read not only my post but those in response to my post as well.
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>ApacheApache
New Post Re: Michelle's spins
Posted: 1/13/03 12:31:19 pm
Rgirl said "Just to clarify something about ApacheApache, since s/he doesn't often post here. For those who might not be familiar with ApacheApache, s/he has stated in previous posts that he is new to skating so he asks a lot of questions, and also, that the only reason he even became interested in skating was because of Michelle, whom he absolutely loves. Without Michelle, AA has said he wouldn't even have paid attention to skating. So ApacheApache is a true Kwan fan, just so that's clear."

Rgirl, thanks so much. I appreciate it. I can't believe you remember that <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif ALT=":\"> .[/quote]pub94.ezboard.com/fgolden...21&stop=40

In general, I think--in fact I know--a few people have pigeonholed me as being a "Kwan hater" and as someone who "lumps all Kwan fans together [as being crazy]." It's not true, it's never been true, yet I am judged by a few people (and I do emphasize "few" because that's all I know of) by sheer inference and a couple of sentences taken out of context from a couple of posts written three years ago, despite everything I've written since. (If anybody is interested in these "infamous" posts, again, you can PM me.)

It's also been said by a few that the "Detente" thread was yet another example of me being a troublemaker. For what it's worth, with the "Detente" thread, I was trying to provide a forum where people could discuss problems between Kwan fans and nonKwan fans in the hope of improving relations and communication. Obviously improved relations and communication was not the result; that was my intent, but it is my failure. I have also been described as the poster who "spreads negativity throughout [GS]." (I won't post a link for that last quote, but if people want verification of it, they can PM me.) When this kind of thing comes from a few people I don't know and who don't know me (and it has for years), or people I know can't stand me and never will, I don't care. But when it comes from people I consider "forum friends," it hurts.

Joe, as always, you (and anyone) are welcome to PM me about any problems you feel I am creating. In fact I wish you would.
Rgirl
 
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Mathman3

Guest
Re: If and When I Offend........

Oh my goodness, where to begin? I suppose I should just shut up. ... Nahhhh.

1. Since this is supposedly a thread about Sk8Cynic apologizing to the group for her war-related custom signature, I'll start there. Anyone who has been reading all the threads about the war will understand that Cynic and I have different opinions about the war itself. We also have a large (and growing as we get to know each other better) commonality of interest, mainly in that we both hope that the hostilities can be concluded quickly with a minimum of bloodshed.

It was cool that Sk8Cynic respected the opinions and the feelings of other members of the forum so much that she took immediate steps to remove all traces of the offending lines -- if it had been I, I don't think I would have been so dilligent.

I felt that Sk8Cynic went out of her way to put the interests of the Golden Skate community before her own intensely held views.

2. When Sk8Cynic attacked Eltamina for being overly critical of Sasha, I thought that she (Cynic) was over the top. I felt that this was one of those instances where the point could have been made without emotional hyperbole. Once again, just taking a few minutes "time out" before you jump to the keyboard does wonders for one's disposition. For that matter, even after you post you can always go back and reshape your thoughts using more measured language. (I have done this many, many times when I got angry -- as Red Dog for one will well remember :lol: ).

3. Rgirl is not a Kwan hater. I can verify that she defended Apache (a Kwaniac) because when I complained on the forum about how Apache worded some of his questions, Rgirl wrote me a long PM in which she went to the trouble of quoting many of Apache's posts verbatim just to convince me that Apache was a straight-up kind of guy. Nor does she lump all Kwan fans together and think they are crazy (just me :lol: ).

She did the same when I was arguing with Kwan-neutral Red Dog, BTW.

4. "For what it's worth, with the "Detente" thread, I was trying to provide a forum where people could discuss problems between Kwan fans and nonKwan fans in the hope of improving relations and communication. Obviously improved relations and communication was not the result." -- Rgirl

For what it's worth, the Detante thread and the Michelle thread that led up to it, DID improve relations. I at least finally -- DUH -- started to understand why non-Kwans get annoyed at all the uncritical Kwan-gushing as if that is the entirety of figure skating. Conversely, if the non-Kwans seem to make their point too loudly at times, well, when you are in the minority you have to talk louder to make yourself heard.

(I found the ideal solution. When I can't stand it any longer I go to Michelle Kwan World and gush to my heart's content.)

5. About Fetal. I support Paula 100%. There is a fine line between the concepts of freedom of speech and of fouling your own nest. Paula cannot be expected to serve as babysitter for this forum, on top of her other duties.

There. Is there anyone I haven't offended yet?

Mathman

PS. Read quick. I'll probably delete this post after I've thought it over. :)
 
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eltamina

Guest
skating gods, museum gods and music gods

Just want to drop a note before our Washington DC trip. I haven’t been following this thread closely. Here are some thoughts.

Sk8cynic, I believe we last talked in another thread, I said OK and I will try to do my part at GS. I haven’t revisit that thread to lurk or post, but my OK is still good. My computer received a virus through someone’s addy book, it is kinda messy, so I have not been searching you PM diligently. There will probably be no computer access for the next 6 – 7 days. I promise to file a report on the exhibition program with all the details of hair, costumes etc ASAP.

Talk about conflicts, whatever happens here at GS is nothing compare to what we will be experiencing in the next few days. (Exaggerating of course)

There is a battle among the skating gods, museum gods, and music gods and I won’t even be attending the ladies free skate on 3/29. To put a nice icing on the cake, Mr. know it all decides to find some demonstrations while we are in DC. I told him, “Nice, do what you need to do, I will be at the national gallery of art.”

:D
 
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mathman444

Guest
Re: skating gods, museum gods and music gods

Eltamina, you're going to Washington? Oh, Wow, I'm so jealous.

Your hotel probably has internet access and computers for guest to use. Or visit the library . I think there's one right near the art gallery.

What we really need here are reports on practice sessions and the qualifying rounds, which won't be televised.

Mathman
 
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Jules Asner

Guest
Re: skating gods, museum gods and music gods

eltamina, have fun! if you see any practice sessions please fill us in.
 
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sk8cynic

Guest
Re: skating gods, museum gods and music gods

Me, too, Eltamina, me too. :)

Hope you have a great trip to Worlds. Looking forward to your reports.
 
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