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Thread: If and When I Offend........

  1. #16
    Joesitz
    Guest

    Re: If and When I Offend........


    Sk8cynic - My use of the term 'dumb' in that post was only to express my feeling that something might ruin the Worlds. I can understand how it was misinterpreted, and I will indeed take it out. But you will see in many of my posts I use the term dumb as Charlie Brown would use Drats.

    Sorry, about assuming you would be pleased with the war. I do apologize.

    I am hoping you understand that politics, religion, ethnicity, nationality, and sexuality are all sensitive subjects. Why the need to bring them up in the first place? We do have young figure skating fans who read GS. There is so much discussion and yes, arguments and tirades about figure skating. That's plenty. But Le Cafe is there for all of us to sound off on non skating issues.

    Joe

  2. #17
    sk8cynic
    Guest

    Re: If and When I Offend........


    Thank you for editing out the word 'dumb.' In and of itself it's fine, but like you said, the impending war is a very sensitive issue. Lke you have said, political statements, comments, etc., belong in the cafe, and that was in The Edge.

    There are a number of members here (myself included) that often don't re-read before posting to minimize the chance that their comments will be misinterpreted. I'm working on that, as well as taking a break and calming down when I have read something that sends me into orbit. It helps, and I recommend it to everyone.



  3. #18
    rgirl181
    Guest

    Re: If and When I Offend........


    I was going to post this early this morning, but I wanted to wait and go over it again to make sure the wording said what I meant. Well, what a difference eight hours makes:lol: Have decided to post this anyway, just to show that Cynic is not alone in her views. Just to be clear, I'm not trying to get on your case just to annoy you, Joe (although after reading your apology on that other thread, I feel awful about this:( ). But I think there are some issues here that warrant consideration. Remember, this was written yesterday.

    Joe,
    I think you're missing the point. First let me say that I absolutely agree that Cynic's signature was inappropriate and that it was right that she be asked to remove it. What I have a problem with is the way you handled the situation when all the signatures didn't immediately disappear and your continued attitude toward Cynic. To summarize the situation: Starting on March 15, Cynic had a signature that said, "The UN is about as effective as a traffic cop on valium!!! -Can I interest you in a vintage French Whine?" As far as I can tell, you posted her on the 16th that it was inappropriate and a few hours later, she posted that she had removed the signature. Unfortunately, because of a computer situation, Cynic had to remove each signature individually. This caused a delay in Cynic being able to remove all the signatures, although most of them were removed within about six hours of your initial post telling her to remove the signature. When you found a couple of posts that still had the signature, rather than PM Cynic to find out if there was a problem, you posted what I considered to be very heavy handed and accusatory "warnings" to her, eg, "Get your political signature out of the skating threads and into the Off Topic Le Cafe. We can see a barage of counter points to this and it is not about skating. Last warning." Even though Cynic was removing the signatures as quickly as possible, apparently you assumed she was not obeying your directive. However, I guess you never bothered to PM her to find out what the problem was. This is what I find problematic and inappropriate.

    Also, Cynic never said she missed Fetal. She was simply comparing the way Fetal's inappropriate signature was treated compared to hers. You never posted bombastic warnings within 24 hours of your first notice to Fetal on the forum for him to remove his signature; it was all done via PMs. The point is: Why wasn't the same courtesy of using PMs afforded to Cynic?

    And why the sarcasm in your post to Cynic,ie, "Cheer up, though. I believe your wish will come true" regarding the war? I sincerely doubt that Cynic is "wishing" for war. She simply supports the President's position. Also, why would you not allow Cynic to use the signature, "I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it"?

    Joe, believe me, I have the utmost respect and appreciation for the unpaid and often thankless job the moderators do, but I hope you will be able to accept and consider what I intend as constructive criticism of the way you handled this situation. BTW, my decision to broach this subject with you was not just this situation, but also because of several others as well. It's just my opinion and I'm sure you will get other responses who disagree with me. And of course it's easy for me to look at something with 20/20 hindsight and say what should have been done. I wanted to discuss this with you privately, but as you know, I PM'd you about this several days ago and you never responded. (I'm now wondering if you missed it because of the new PM system. If so, sorry.) But I would still like to suggest that after a moderator asks that something in a post be immediately removed that you or anybody also PM the person and give them a couple of days to respond before posting notices accusing them of noncompliance. Not everyone checks in to GS every day and not everyone checks every post.

    As far as Cynic's views on a war with Iraq are concerned, I'm sure Cynic is quite aware of how the country is divided and that other posters disagree with her. At least in Le Cafe, it was my understanding that differing views about the war are accepted, as long as they are stated with respect for others' opinions, which I (and apparently others) feel Cynic did. Also, Cynic never said she might leave, so why the section on "you have much to offer" etc.?

    There is another issue I had written about when I started this that changed this morning when you finally edited out the "dumb" from your "dumb war" reference on the "ABC and the War!" thread--seven days after Maxell pointed out that it was inappropriate and did not belong in "The Edge." Kudos, to you Joe for editing out the "dumb," espcially since I found your use of "dumb war" to be a double standard regarding the way you treated Cynic. When Cynic posted on 3/16/03 that she had removed the signature you replied, "Thank you Cynic. Nothing wrong with your political beliefs but it doesn't belong with figure skating." I agree, absolutely, but at the time you wrote that, you had included the less obvious but IMO equally offensive "dumb war" political comment on 3/12/03, ie, "Anyone have any news if that dumb war starts that ABC will be entitled to pre-empt their regularly schecluded programs?" Two hours later, Maxell responded, "Not everyone considers it a 'dumb war.' Political threads go in the off-topic forum." Of course I'm glad you edited out the "dumb," but why did it take you seven days? You were reprimanding Cynic about her signature in a pretty heavy duty way less than 24 hours after you first noted it. I'm just trying to point out that lately I've been seeing a double standard in some of the ways you've chosen to moderate the forum. I hope you know that as b****y as all this may sound, I say it in all support as someone who considers you a friend.

    As for what you wrote in today's post: "Why bring politics up at all?" Why did you start a thread about ABC possibly pre-empting Worlds because of "this dumb war"? There was nothing anybody could do about it, so why go bring it up? The reason, IMO, is that people like to get out their frustrations. You understand and enjoy your own "venting" posts, and others have their reasons for "venting." Besides, Cynic started removing the political signature as soon as you posted her on it.

    Anyway, I don't agree with Cynic's views on a US war with Iraq, but as long as her posts are in Le Cafe I absolutely support her and anybody else's right to voice their opinions about the war. I know you have an often difficult and thankless job as a moderator, Joe, but in this case, I think you might want to think about how you handled this situation. I realize this is a sticky situation since this is a case where a forum member disagrees with the way a moderator has been handling a situation. In any case, I hope you take this in the spirit in which it is intended: Constructive criticism and food for thought. Also, I think it would go a long way toward resolving this whole situation if you apologized to Cynic. It's up to you, of course, but I hope you come to that conclusion.
    Rgirl

  4. #19
    Grgranny
    Guest

    Re: If and When I Offend........


    Well, I hadn't said much about Fetal's Jesus Museum thing but I was really disgusted that no one had made him remove it for such a very long time. I try not to complain about things as I know others evidently didn't care but it still gets my dander up. DEFINITELY.

  5. #20
    mathman444
    Guest

    Re: If and When I Offend........


    Rgirl, but even so, I'm not sure that all this adds up to a "serious character defect in [Joe's] makeup."

    Mathman

  6. #21
    rgirl181
    Guest

    Re: If and When I Offend........


    Mathman,
    I don't think any of this adds up to even a minor defect in Joe's character. (Where's your quote from?) I think Joe's character is great. I have some disagreements with the way he handled a series of things. Admittedly, I was ambivalent as to whether I should have posted this. Ultimately, I decided to post it because I hope it will generate some thought and/or discussion about what one does when one feels the moderators are mismoderating (if that's a word). Maybe whatever the moderators say or do goes? Or maybe we should discuss what posters should do if they feel they've been treated unfairly by a moderator.

    But as far as I'm concerned, this has nothing to do with Joe's character. It has to do with a disagreement over how certain things were handled.
    Rgirl

  7. #22
    sk8cynic
    Guest

    Re: If and When I Offend........


    <blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I think it shows a serious character defect in your makeup if you feel anyone would be looking forward to it.
    [/quote]

    Mathman,

    You are right. I think I was looking at that one from the wrong angle. The true defect of character are the whack jobs that do gleefully anticipate military actions, looking forward to all the carnage.

    Once again, it's that whole thing I posted about. If I had taken the time to read back through what I wrote after taking a breather, I'd have caught that one. I was incredibly hurt and angry that he would lump me into that category, and I was very reactionary when I wrote it. I guess you could call it even, but we're both evenly hurt and angered over this whole debacle.

    Part of why I flipped on that one was the fact that I had, and to a large degree, still have a lot of respect for Joe. He's got some great insights, puts great topic threads that spark good dialogue and banter, and busts his [color=red]*[/color][color=red]*[/color][color=red]*[/color] here at GS as a moderator, but I must agree and back up Rgirl with respect to her concerns about a double standard starting to exist here. I thought I was being over sensitive until I read her post.

    That having been said, I must go. I am completely drained from dealing with two wars, neither of which I am happy about.





  8. #23
    WindSpirit5
    Guest

    Re: If and When I Offend........


    Well, I'm a little late... I wasn't offended by your signature (even though I didn't agree with it at all), but I do believe that things like that belong here in Off Topic. Yes, Fetal had his sig for months, but it's in the past now. I mean, if that was a mistake on the moderators' part (and I think it was), they seem to have learned from it. This is how I see it. IMO they didn't deliberately put up with it (as in didn't at all care about it), it was more like testing how "loose" (for lack of the word) posters can be here at GS. Maybe they hated the idea of putting up barriers (there's some melancholy to it, isn't it?), but learned the sad truth it's inevitable.

    I'm sorry you were hurt, I hope you'll get over it soon, and that you're not going anywhere. I admire the restraint you've shown (knowing how emotional it was for you), having been around the boards and newsgroups for a few years I know it's rather rare. Btw, I love Eddie Izzard!

  9. #24
    shadair
    Guest

    Re: If and When I Offend........


    I don't get involved in political arguments. My opinions are mine and I don't usually share them. You can call me your resident Pollyanna. (That might be a good custom title for me)

    A wise man once said:


    "On another thread Paula (GS administrator GS8 ) reminded us that she spends most of her time researching and writing news stories and articles, arranging and conducting interviews, preparing the newsletter, responding to email, etc. This means that she has a right to expect that the Forum will pretty much police itself, following rules of common courtesy. As Joe says, it does not rise to the level of a First Amendment issue if we take a minute to ask ourselves,

    "Gee, maybe this post that I'm about to write is going to sound nasty and mean to a lot of people. Maybe another person will feel that I have belittled his or her opinion or assaulted a value systems that he or she holds dear. Maybe I can make my point a little differently. Or maybe I should save it and post on one of those "anything goes" discussion groups instead." " Thanks, Mathman

    I realize that this was concerning a different matter entirely but it can hold true for war debates, political debates or skating debates.

    There's enough tension in the world right now. Looks like there should be some place to escape some of that.




  10. #25
    rgirl181
    Guest

    Re: If and When I Offend........


    Shadair,
    I'm glad you rekindled Mathman's post. I know this thread has several subtopics, but as far as my issue is concerned, I am just hoping that the moderators will keep these same words in mind when they have to tell someone something is inappropriate and in general. I know, I'm the anti-Pollyanna
    Rgirl

  11. #26
    FetalAttraction
    Guest

    Re: If and When I Offend........


    This is the first thread I've read since getting suspended from Golden Skate. I might go into more detail on why I ignored GS after the hysteria that was my suspension. But now I'm back, kinda.

    I was informed that some of ya'll be talkin' 'bout me in this thread by a little anonymous bird. Since I like some of ya'll on this thread, and I can offer information pertaining to the going on's, I'm going to chime in just this one time.

    I took plenty of [crap] for my signature line. Paula PMed me to make me stop linking to my darling website. So I found other ways to express my opinions on religion, which were met with post after post of vitriol, that some of ya'll here apparently never read or just forgot. I had member after member telling me in posts that I'd descend into the fiery pits of hell to be made a smore for all eternity. I don't know if Paula PMed them. Suffice it to say, the religious thing caused plenty of upset on this board. I don't know why you guys thinks it didn't. Maybe ya'll have faith that the past never happened.

    By the way, these days I mostly post on the Michelle Kwan Forum, which has ironically become less restrictive than GS. Now, that, my friends, is a board filled with warmongers with little tolerance for other opinions. Some of you hawks might find a nice nest there. Although, of course, I'm there to shake up the tree. My real home, though, is the Uncensored Forum. That board is truly about a free exchange of ideas and information. For fans of mine, and I know there are lots, who want to check up on my latest writings, follow the
    Fetal Attraction profile. It contains links to all my latest posts.

    Peace/war out!

  12. #27
    Joesitz
    Guest

    Re: If and When I Offend........


    Fetal - The Uncensored Forum is fabulous. I went to take a peek and stayed for an hour giggling.

    Joe

  13. #28
    rgirl181
    Guest

    Re: If and When I Offend........


    Fetal,
    Just to clarify, Cynic was making the comparison that you didn't get posts from any of the moderators telling you to remove your religious signature for months, while she got two very pointed warnings within 24 hours that she had not removed her signature, even though it was just because she had a computer problem. If anybody doesn't remember the tons of fire and brimstone you got from a certain poster (a few others of us also got a taste of it, though we didn't get the tonnage), then they weren't reading GS.

    You know I love having you back, but since you haven't been following things, I have a great way for handling such situations : Familiarize yourself with what's going on before you make assumptions--otherwise, things will get all fun and exciting around here again
    Rgirl

  14. #29
    sk8m8
    Guest

    Re: If and When I Offend........


    Rgirl, YOU'RE my Auntie Polyanna, please write home. All your family misses you.

  15. #30
    rgirl181
    Guest

    Re: If and When I Offend........


    That's odd, Sk8m8. According to some people, I'm Auntie Michelle. But they sure as hell don't miss me:lol:

    But these folks are mistaken anyway. I'm just plain old Auntie Cinquanta:smokin:
    Rgirl

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