Dan ZHANG / Hao ZHANG CHN

ballerinagrl · Mar 21, 2007

Okay, so I watched it live and have now read the pairs short thread. I have questions:

1. What exactly were they given the two penalty points for? Or rather why were two points deducted? Did they break the rules? How?
2. Why was their lift marked as if they hadn't even done it - as though they'd missed the element entirely - when I thought it was beautiful? Note, I did notice it seemed to go on rather longer than l would have expected. Is this the problem?
3. I assume the federation is asking for answers. Does anyone have any idea what they might be told?

Thanks for any insights!

Best, Lilia

thpme · Mar 21, 2007

Rosaleen has explained in the pair short program thread that Hao Zhang rotated more than 4 times while the rule specifies that the during a lift the male skater can rotate no more than 3 and a half times. Therefore, their elelment was illegal and marked as 0 with 2 points deductions.

gsrossano · Mar 21, 2007

They did more rotations than allowed. So the lift was called an illegal element by the Tech Panel. Which means the lift gets no points, and the deduction for an illegal element is 2 points.

BTW. In Dance, if a lift goes too long, it gets an extended lift deduction, but the lift still gets its points. But in pairs the team gets killed.

ballerinagrl · Mar 22, 2007

Thanks for the info. I certainly undertand now. What still concerns me is why they did it. They and their coach and choreographer will know the rules and will be studying the COP rulebook, so how is it a top team make such a huge mistake? Any speculation would be extremely welcome. Thanks, in advance, Lilia

iloveaxel · Mar 22, 2007

ballerinagrl said:
Thanks for the info. I certainly undertand now. What still concerns me is why they did it. They and their coach and choreographer will know the rules and will be studying the COP rulebook, so how is it a top team make such a huge mistake? Any speculation would be extremely welcome. Thanks, in advance, Lilia

Of course they know the rule, their coach told the reporters it's an uncharacteristic& rare mistake by Hao Zhao as the take-off of the lift was a bit shaky and he forgot to count the rotations correct. :chorus:

ballerinagrl · Mar 22, 2007

Wow! He forgot to count! Unreal! I wonder what she was thinking when she was stuck in the air so long. You'd think she'd be screaming at him to put her down. Shows off how very strong he is though, I guess. I have to admit that at the time, I was really impressed to see almost eight rotations. I thought it looked darn impressive :chorus:

iloveaxel · Mar 22, 2007

ballerinagrl said:
Wow! He forgot to count! Unreal! I wonder what she was thinking when she was stuck in the air so long. You'd think she'd be screaming at him to put her down. Shows off how very strong he is though, I guess. I have to admit that at the time, I was really impressed to see almost eight rotations. I thought it looked darn impressive :chorus:

I believe they knew they had made a mistake but did not know the consequence even in K&C area. Giving 0 to that element is fine but having an extra decution of 2 points was a bit ridiculous. I don't think many judges knew exactly what was happening since Bin Yao told the reporters that a couple of judges were inquring about it with him after the short program.

ballerinagrl · Mar 22, 2007

Okay, so I don't feel so dumb now, if even some judges were also lost! I really wish the chinese kept web blogs, so she could write about how it felt to be stuck up there for rather longer than expected

iloveaxel · Mar 22, 2007

ballerinagrl said:
Okay, so I don't feel so dumb now, if even some judges were also lost! I really wish the chinese kept web blogs, so she could write about how it felt to be stuck up there for rather longer than expected

She did upgrade their web blog yesterday. They were sort of relieved the competiton was over. They knew they would not have done very well beforehand since their training was not going well and she had some health problem. They are still very positive though. They said they would work extra hard next season and will do a new long program after some rest.

They said they would practice throw quad sal again in Summer. I don't like the idea though. It's too dangerous. What they really need is to work on their basic skating skills and presentation, not just more big tricks. :rock:

ballerinagrl · Mar 22, 2007

Thanks so much for updating me! All things considered I was very impressed with their free. I've always loved watching them though. I agree with you about the quad salchow. The fall she took in the Olys was horrible. I imagine if she begins training it again she will likley experience many more such falls in practice, even if not in competition, and the risk of a career-ending injury seems far too high. Do you think there is possibly pressure from the coach and federation for the team to get the quad sal back?

iloveaxel · Mar 22, 2007

ballerinagrl said:
Thanks so much for updating me! All things considered I was very impressed with their free. I've always loved watching them though. I agree with you about the quad salchow. The fall she took in the Olys was horrible. I imagine if she begins training it again she will likley experience many more such falls in practice, even if not in competition, and the risk of a career-ending injury seems far too high. Do you think there is possibly pressure from the coach and federation for the team to get the quad sal back?

Not necessarily. I believe their coach is a well-rounded, and very reasonable one.
Zhang & Zhang themselves seem to be the ones who are eager to get the quad back. They actually landed a perfect one at 2005 Nationals. They said they wanted to prove to the world they are the first couple can do it, which is a bit naive thinking.

I do believe, however, they should put quad in their arsenal for the sake of 2010 at some point, but not necessarily next season. They are a technical pair and their presentation skills have a long way to go. It will be probably hard for them to win an OGM if they don't do stuff nobody can do. :rock:

Dan ZHANG / Hao ZHANG CHN

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