View Poll Results: who's gonna win 2010 olympics?

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  • jeffrey buttle

    28 9.52%
  • brian joubert

    53 18.03%
  • johnny weir

    30 10.20%
  • evan lysacek

    19 6.46%
  • stefan lambiel

    40 13.61%
  • daisuke takahashi

    77 26.19%
  • nobunari oda

    11 3.74%
  • others

    36 12.24%
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Thread: who's gonna win 2010 olympic part two

  1. #76
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moviechick View Post
    The sports meaning of title refers to the championship. The other meanings like title of a book or movie are completely useless in this context. And I'm pretty sure they weren't speaking English in Ancient Greece.
    Hmm, I m also pretty sure that when the Olympics were on back then,english language wasnt even a spoken one, not in the form we know it, so no they didnt speak english, but they used the greek word meaning "championship", I dont even understand the point of this comment, I suppose that even if our discussion were in japanese, still the statements would be the same.
    And I meant "title" in sports, not books and movies, I just asked if there is a definition of title meaning championship.Out of curiocity but nevermind.
    I dont care if Plush will be Olympic Champion for the second time, I hope he will if he deserves it but I would also like to see Takahashi there. I think he is the only one from the new skaters that has all the ingredients to be a memorable champion.
    Last edited by seniorita; 06-10-2008 at 04:29 AM.

  2. #77
    Rinkside
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    EvgeniRocks, I don't think you are ridiculous, and if you see Plushenko as a two-time champion, good for you. However, moviechick is correct that in the sense of common use of the English language, an Olympic champion or title holder is the winner of the event. This is why Plushenko's Olympic profile, which I linked to before, does not list him as a two-time champion, but as having won one title. I would posit that the IOC is the authority on this matter, not the Union Internationale de Pentathlon Moderne.

    Also, when in doubt, check the dictionary - in this case, the Oxford English dictionary: champion: • noun 1. a person who has won a sporting contest or other competition. 2. a defender of a cause or person. (Emphasis mine). http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/champion?view=uk

    Evgeni Plushenko is a great and accomplished skater, but a two-time Olympic champion he is not - as of 2008, as you noted. Personally, I hope he doesn't become a two-time champion, and if I had to pick who will win in 2010, I'd say that barring injuries and/or a meltdown, it should be either Takahashi or Joubert.
    It is not my motivation to be argumentative on this subject, but since several people recently placed my comment at the center of debate in this thread - and have continued to keep it there, I feel I have the right to defend my position.

    As I have explained ad nauseam, I grasp the fact many people view the title of Olympic Champion as belonging to the 1st place winner (as you say, in the sense of common use of the English language). However, I posted those links to show moviechick this is not always this case, that there are reputable sources who have a broader definition of the title. I agree IOC would be the final authority, but I have heard their representatives call silver and bronze medalists Olympic Champions on occasion. Maybe the person speaking was in error, but all I can do is tell you what I've witnessed since I have no evidence to corroborate this.

    Based on the definitions you both have posted, Evgeni would be considered a champion because he did win, he just won silver instead of gold. If it were a contest in which there is only one winner - as in 1st place only (like several of the examples moviechick used), then I would say the arguments you both use are valid. I mean, if the actions of the Committee were to reflect there only being one winner, then why go to the trouble of giving second and third place if those doesn't count as a win.

    Really, we are all entitled to opinions and point of view, and though I wish to defend mine because I feel I'm being unjustly attacked for something I've already expressed numerous times is an opinion, I'm done debating this because I don't see any further point to it.

    Evgeni Plushenko is a two-time Olympic Champion to more than just me.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvgeniRocks View Post
    I'm sure the individuals who run these sites would welcome your opinions on why they are wrong, and why they should stop making up meanings and throwing around definitions to suit their purpose:

    http://www.pentathlon.org/index.php?id=157

    http://www.britannica.com/eb/article...er-Games-Turin

    http://en.beijing2008.cn/84/72/column211717284.shtml

    Just because you personally haven't heard of someone other than a gold medalist being referred to as an Olympic Champion doesn't mean it's incorrect to do so. If you can show me something official - like a guideline - which clearly and specifically states it is a rule and/or protocol only 1st place Olympic Game winners are to be considered Champions, then I will concede you are right. Good luck. (Examples like the one you used with the Lakers and Celtics aren't applicable because there is no second or third place awarded as in the Olympics.)

    You can think I'm wrong or ridiculous all you want, but Evgeni Plushenko is a TWO-time Olympic Champion in my view, and that's not going to change until he becomes a THREE-time Champion in 2010.

    May I point out something that I don't understand?

    In the link you have provided above, regarding to Olympic-Champions-XX-Winter-Games-Turin

    scroll down to figure skating section, it stated that the gold medalist Yevgeny Plushchenko (although I don't know who he is, I assume that it's Evgeni Plushenko), silver medalist Jeffrey Buttle, and bronze medalist Evan Lysacek.

    Would you please kindly light me up that in what Olympic winter game that Buttle got silver and Lysacek got bronze?

    Also the third link is a Chinese website link. I am pretty sure that Chinese don't speak English as their mother tongue.

    The first link seems not an English based organization link either.
    Last edited by jennylovskt; 06-13-2008 at 02:21 AM.

  4. #79
    Custom Title NatachaHatawa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jennylovskt View Post
    May I point out something that I don't understand?

    In the link you have provided above, regarding to Olympic-Champions-XX-Winter-Games-Turin

    scroll down to figure skating section, it stated that the gold medalist Yevgeny Plushchenko (although I don't know who he is, I assume that it's Evgeni Plushenko), silver medalist Jeffrey Buttle, and bronze medalist Evan Lysacek.

    Would you please kindly light me up that in what Olympic winter game that Buttle got silver and Lysacek got bronze?

    either.
    Stéphane Lambiel got silver and Jeffrey Buttle got bronze.

    I'm shocked at such a big mistake in such a prestigeouse encylopedia. I've sent them a message for them to correct it.

  5. #80
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    There is only ONE winner at the Olympics. It's just that the two runner-ups also get a physical prize (silver and bronze medals). This is true for many other sports as well like tennis. The winner gets the big cup trophy while the 2nd place finisher gets that plate thing. There is no way in hell that the two are considered equal in any way. No one would call the 2nd place finisher the "champion" or the "title-holder", yet you could say he still "won" that silver plate thing; but he's NOT the champion. It's in the freakin' dictionary that champion = the winner of a competition. How much clearer can it get?

    Yes, I suppose you can see Plushenko as anything you'd like. Hell, to you he could even be a 4000-time Olympic champion, but only in your mind.

    Last time I checked, we're all using English here. Since that is the case, I think it's better to stick with the English definitions of words. Perhaps there is less of a distinction in other languages, but since we're not using those languages, it's probably better not to make up definitions. Especially since there is nothing wrong with being a ONE-time Olympic champion. To try to inflate his record is just ridiculous considering he already has a great one and he doesn't need fans stretching the rules of the English language to give him titles he doesn't have. Do you also consider him a 5-time world champion as well? Somehow I feel like you wouldn't be arguing this point so tenaciously if it were say, Michelle Kwan or Elvis Stojko, who were being touted as a two-time Olympic champions... I mean, I have yet to encounter any Irina or Michelle supporters so fanatic that they'd call them 2-time Olympic champions.

    Plus, if you truly believe that just making it to the podium makes you an Olympic champion, then I must say, the term "Olympic champion" loses a lot of its prestige/luster since there would be three times as many.

    Anyways, this argument is pretty ridiculous and is completely off-topic/annoying. Definitions are all in the dictionary. People are free to ignore them as they wish.

    BTW, those sites linked-- none of them specifically refer to anyone as "olympic champions". It seems the page is titled Olympic champions because they show who won each event, and its like oh, btw here are the 2nd and 3rd place finishers. I have yet to see any legit reference that calls Plushenko or like Phillipe Candelero (2-time medalist, no?) 2-time Olympic champions.
    Last edited by moviechick; 06-18-2008 at 01:05 AM.

  6. #81
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    Anyways, back to the original topic. I think it'll be between Takahashi, Joubert and Lambiel (if he can regain consistency). If any of these three falters, I would include Buttle, Weir or Lysacek as contenders as well (but if those three skate well, probably not). But you never know these days-- it could be anyone's game at the Olympics.

  7. #82
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    North Americans will have an edge, but Canadians have traditionally had such unbearable pressure on them. My 'wish' would be for Buttle, and Chan has a real chance (not amongst the choices I notice). Weir and Lycacek could cancel each other out and an artistic newcomer with little pressure like Jeremy Abbott could rise to the occassion (think, Paul Wylie in Albertville). Canadian audiences are so knowledgeable and the preparation that screaming fans in Japan give to someone like Takahashi, could put him in good stead heading into the pressure cooker of the Olympics. Russian come backs... will be too tough. Lambiel... love him, but 'meal ticket' moves like Triple Axel... too unreliable.

  8. #83
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    why not Buttle? After all.....

    Quote Originally Posted by doubleaxel View Post
    I find it funny when people say Buttle is a possible OGM candidate. That's ridiculous. That's just me though.

    I think it could be either Joubert or Plushenko. If Plushenko comes back, then I think he would need a 4t/3t/3t to win over Brian Joubert and others without question, since everything else he does the other top men are capable of doing, as well (such as the 4t/3t, which wasn't as common, say, two years ago).
    Why not Buttle, after all he did win Worlds with a beautiful sp and lp. I bet you thought he would never have won Worlds, huh? He did with many points over 2nd place Joubert. Maybe the judges like to see beautiful flawless programs? He will be working on the quad soon. I have seen jeff do a perfect quad with a double toe on the end of it. Jeffrey has a World, gold, silver and an Olympic bronze to his credit, so don't count him out.

  9. #84
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    Ladskater, don't forget.....

    [QUOTE=Ladskater;254315]
    Quote Originally Posted by doubleaxel View Post
    I find it funny when people say Buttle is a possible OGM candidate. That's ridiculous. That's just me though. IQUOTE]

    Why does this sound ridiculous? Jeff is already a Bronze Olympic medalist from the 2006 Games in Turin.
    Don't forget Jeff won Worlds gold and silver too.

  10. #85
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    why take them off the list?

    Quote Originally Posted by slutskayafan21 View Post
    I would take Buttle and Weir off the poll altogether and replace them with Verner and Plushenko.
    Why? Jeff won Worlds gold and Johnny won Worlds bronze.

  11. #86
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    Exactly. Hardly anyone said he'd be a world metal contender this year either.

    If there's anything that this year taught me is....

    NEVER count anyone out...

  12. #87
    Addicted to handsome, artistic male skaters ;-)
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    Quote Originally Posted by JClairUSF View Post
    Exactly. Hardly anyone said he'd be a world metal contender this year either.

    If there's anything that this year taught me is....

    NEVER count anyone out...
    Absolutely. A lot of people even claimed that Jeff was past his prime and that he should retire from competition. He's the world champ now, and his critics are STILL eager to write him off. Sheesh, there's just no pleasing some folks. Well, let them underestimate him; that clearly works in Jeff's favour!

  13. #88
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    I think the question with Jeffrey Buttle is whether or not he can skate clean & with the planned content. Up until 2008 Worlds - which he deservedly won - this was often an issue at major competitions, which is why I think he was discounted as a serious contender (yes, I know he won a medal in Torino - but that was not a night of great skating, to say the least). Obviously if he can skate his SP and LP as he did at Worlds this year in Vancouver, he's got a good shot at it. If not, he'll finish off the podium unless we have another Torino-like competition (as a skating fan, I certainly hope not).

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