Will Lysacek complete a Michael Weiss-like career?

Does anybody else think that Evan Lysacek will end his career the same way Michael Weiss did? Michael Weiss won 2 World bronze medals, then competed for 6 more years as an amateur but never again attained such heights. I could see the same thing happening to Lysacek as with the depth of the current mens field more World medals do not seem in his future. He won his 2 World bronzes in relatively weaker fields, in what could overall be evaluated as not particularly well skated events. At this years Worlds he did not get the help from the field he is accustomed to, and even with the help from the judges in the scores he has become familiar with, that was not enough to overcome the superiority of his rivals who chose to stand up this time around and he finished out of the medals.

So I would be a bit surprised if he ever managed to reach a Worlds podium again. His only possible improvement at this point is adding a second quadruple jump in the free skate which does not garner you many extra points. His competitors I see much more capacity for technical and artistic growth then he, in fact I would not be at all surprised if he revived Carmen for a 3rd straight year as tedious as it is becoming, it is likely the best work he is capable of. However I still see him hanging around near the top in the U.S and posting some other good results at the World level of 5th, 6th, 7th, from time to time, just as Weiss did. I do not think he will go away anytime soon, whether he continues to pursue the category of eligible skating past 2010 or not is difficult to project, but he will certainly stay in the fray until then and continue to post good results.
Just not up to the heights of continued medals at the World level.

The only thing about Evan that reminds me of Weiss is his obsession with his heterosexuality and manliness.

I think Evan will do a lot better than Weiss, because he is a very strong competitior. As strong as the men's field is right now, it's full of fragile artists (Takahashi, Lambiel), chokers (Oda, Buttle, Joubert has choked in the past), and headcases (Johnny, Sandhu). Evan's consistency will allow him to achieve success.

psycho said:

The only thing about Evan that reminds me of Weiss is his obsession with his heterosexuality and manliness.

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You are definitely correct on that particular point of similarity between the two.

I think Evan will do a lot better than Weiss, because he is a very strong competitior.

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So was Michael Weiss a very strong competitor, just a limited talent as Evan Lysacek is.

As strong as the men's field is right now, it's full of fragile artists (Takahashi, Lambiel)

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Takahashi has been extremely consistent this season, ever since his Skate Canada meltdown. Lambiel is not "fragile", he fights through many injuries to battle and achieve great success.

chokers (Oda, Buttle, Joubert has choked in the past)

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I dont consider Joubert a choker by any stretch of the imagination.

and headcases (Johnny, Sandhu).

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True, but those 2 are close to irrelevant as far as the contenders go at this point.

Evan's consistency will allow him to achieve success.

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I agree it will, some 5ths and 7ths at Worlds just as Weiss had from this point forward, and another couple U.S titles along the way probably.

You forgot Verner who is coming into his own quickly, and Plushenko's impending return.

Michael Weiss's record wasn't that bad, was it?

no it wasn't

and really the only people who were obsessed with his heterosexualness were those that didn't like him for any host of reasons (never will understand why being a proud father is considered a bad thing...)

I liked Michael Weiss but I did not appreciate the particular time he glided around centre ice in celebration of his title win, around the cold rink with his baby, I believe it was at the time of the 2000 U.S Nationals. I am sure he had no intention of doing anything that would jeapordize the comfort or health of his baby, but it would seem in his excitement he forgot the considerations or implications of health of the child for that moment. Sandra Loosemore I believe on her websites report at the time had said the baby had a cold at the time too.

Of course Michael Weiss had a wonderful career that he can be proud of. I never said he didnt.

I had to go check this first:
http://www.isufs.org/bios/isufs00000067.htm

Looks like there are similarities between the 2: both were 2x Worlds bronze medalists, and 1 x finished 5th. Although Michael Weiss is a 3x National Champ. I wonder if Evan ever becomes that w/o the Carmen.

Hsuhs said:

I had to go check this first:
http://www.isufs.org/bios/isufs00000067.htm

Looks like there are similarities between the 2: both were 2x Worlds bronze medalists, and 1 x finished 5th. Although Michael Weiss is a 3x National Champ. I wonder if Evan ever becomes that w/o the Carmen.

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Sorry, but I don´t see any importance for a skater being US National champion. The Nationals should be regarded only as a ticket to Worlds, Olympics, and no more (IMO). It only matters that a skater is among top three. I see it as a huuuuge mistake that Lysacek put so much importance for becoming the US champion this season and was so set on winning the title that he gave his best performance two months too early, huh. He should have saved that determination and concentration for Worlds!!!

I sure hope very much that Lysacek will not repeat that mistake next season... It is not sensible to pay attention to media fluffs, better to concentrate on the big picture = the most important competition of the season.

It is different in other countries, but in places like the United States and Japan a combination of an insular world view and the strength of the national figure skating programs make the national championship a huge goal. I bet Lysacek is more pleased by his U.S. championship than by his world bronzes. Worlds is not even shown on network TV in the United States, for lack of interest. The Olympics? -- love the parade of flags, but folks worry too much about it, IMHO.

I do think there is a similarity between Weiss' situation and Lysacek's. Basically, U.S. fans say, well, he's the best we have, so, hey, Go Evan (Michael)! It would be nice if they were better, but that's life. Maybe the next guy will do it (Goebel? nope.)

I think Michael suffered in comparison to his predecessor. Todd Eldredge did manage to squeeze out a world championship and was a superior artist. Similarly Johnny Weir has more fans world-wide than Lysacek, even though there is a feeling that Johnny did not quite skate up to his potential despite his three U.S. titles.

I like Carmen just fine. I would rather watch it a hundred times that to have to see Grease again, LOL.

Anyway, Weiss did the best he could and now he's off to fame and fortune with SOI, "freedon blades" at the ready, always up for a "tornado." I assume he is rooting for Evan to skate his best, too.

Jaana said:

Sorry, but I don´t see any importance for a skater being US National champion. The Nationals should be regarded only as a ticket to Worlds, Olympics, and no more (IMO). It only matters that a skater is among top three. I see it as a huuuuge mistake that Lysacek put so much importance for becoming the US champion this season and was so set on winning the title that he gave his best performance two months too early, huh. He should have saved that determination and concentration for Worlds!!!

I sure hope very much that Lysacek will not repeat that mistake next season... It is not sensible to pay attention to media fluffs, better to concentrate on the big picture = the most important competition of the season.

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The Nationals was very, very important for him, and it should have been. Imagine what if he never won a Nationals like Sarah Hughes? Now he has won it. It won't be so important any more from now on. I think he knows that, too.

I dunno... Kurt Browning felt his national titles were important

especially that first defending title... that will be the true test...

and if the title wasn't that important, Johnny wouldn't have gotten so upset... there's something to be said about that US National title... they all want it... and they all don't want to give it up...

as for Mike and taking his son (?) around the rink - no different than Sergei and Katia with Daria at teh rink all the time *Shrugs* the only difference I guess would be G&G are loved by all... and all love to hate Mike.

Jaana said:

Sorry, but I don´t see any importance for a skater being US National champion. The Nationals should be regarded only as a ticket to Worlds, Olympics, and no more (IMO). It only matters that a skater is among top three. I see it as a huuuuge mistake that Lysacek put so much importance for becoming the US champion this season and was so set on winning the title that he gave his best performance two months too early, huh. He should have saved that determination and concentration for Worlds!!!

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I can actually see the point Mathman is making. In the United States of America the U.S Nationals of the sport of figure skating may indeed be a more prestigious and coveted event to the skaters then the World Championships these days. In most of the World this is not the case, but with no main U.S cable network covering the Worlds it does give you some perspective to the prestige and interest dropping of the event in the U.S

As for Lysacek he should feel blessed he did not do a clean free skate performance at Worlds. It would have been a severe blow to his enlarged ego to do a clean free skate and still be passed for the bronze medal by Lambiel later on making major miscues in his performance. Which is exactly what would have happened had Evan done a clean free skate. He should be much happier to have had mistakes and allow the naive and deluded to imagine the grandest of fantasies of what he would have accomplished, ignoring that the scoring protocals suggest otherwise.

I think Lysacek is a better competitor than Weiss was, but I don't know if he's a better skater. Even so, I could see that happening - especially if Plushenko comes back to make every competition a battle for 2nd and 3rd places.
As for the importance of winning Nationals, I think Americans are just hung up on winning, period. You don't win a silver or bronze medal, you settle for them because you lost the gold.

I am sure that the importance of nationals varies greatly from country to country, and even from skater to skater.

Alexei Yagudin never won Russian nationals (!), but with four world championships and an Olympic gold medal, I don't think he is losing any sleep over it, LOL. Russian skaters in particular do seem to regard their national championship as mostly a testing ground to try to impress the Federation to put them on the world team, rather than a worthy achievement in its own right.

But I can't agree with Kittycat that Lysacek is better off with having what he called "his worst performance of the season" at worlds. Every skater wants to do his best. If your best turns out to be fifth place, so be it. It is, after all, a competition -- the other skaters show up, too!

It is not a disappointment to have to say, "I skated my best; today the other guy was better. On to next season!"

But when you don't deliver everything you know you are capable of, that hurts.

scorekeeper said:

I think Lysacek is a better competitor than Weiss was, but I don't know if he's a better skater. Even so, I could see that happening - especially if Plushenko comes back to make every competition a battle for 2nd and 3rd places. As for the importance of winning Nationals, I think Americans are just hung up on winning, period. You don't win a silver or bronze medal, you settle for them because you lost the gold.

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I dont think Plushenko will automaticaly win every event he enters , as he was before he took a break, if he returns. The others contending guys have improved since he left. The very young Oda has shown more great improvement over the last season, even though he did not have a good Worlds. Takahashi has discovered some consistency allowing him to show alot of his potential in competition. Joubert, going through a slump when Plushenko left, is revived and skating better then ever. Lambiel has progressed in his "potential" ability as a skater, he just failed to translate that to competition this season unfortunately, but I expect him to be re-motivated by next season and quite possibly do just that. Verner is emerging as a legit threat, and could make some more big strides next season as he did this season.

I dont think Plushenko will have it easy if he returns. His outrageously inflated PCS will likely(or hopefully atleast) drop somewhat after a year off as well.

I do think though Plushenko, while a big obstacle for everyone of course , is another major obstacle to Lysacek reaching future podiums, of which he has alot of already, and making this poll topic a more likely yes answer.

Mathman said:

But I can't agree with Kittycat that Lysacek is better off with having what he called "his worst performance of the season" at worlds. Every skater wants to do his best. If your best turns out to be fifth place, so be it. It is, after all, a competition -- the other skaters show up, too!

It is not a disappointment to have to say, "I skated my best; today the other guy was better. On to next season!"

But when you don't deliver everything you know you are capable of, that hurts.

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In the case of most skaters I would agree with you. In the case of Evan Lysacek he is fortunate to have not skated a clean free program at Worlds as he would not have medaled even with a clean free program. To have failed to medal with a clean free program, and be passed from behind for the final medal position by a superior skater who endured several major miscues in his own free program, would have been an agonizing feeling and emotional state for an individual with the massive ego Evan Lysacek has. Mind you it is only putting off the inevitable as it is bound to happen in the future multiple times, that is unless he never produces a clean free program in the future to allow that experience to take place. As he was being built up more then ever in the months leading into Worlds, largely centered around his "irrational" score from the United States Figure Skating Championships, hopefully even with his massive ego his view of himself will be a more realistic one and the agonization not quite as severe over the experience.

His mistakes in the final free program, which in actuality only cost him finishing in the more agonizing 4th place instead of 5th, enable the misleading potrayal of his exagerrated abilities by American media and fans alike to continue. A report can still claim falsely he would have medaled or even won gold with his U.S Nationals of Four Continents free program performances, even referring to his proposterous(and that is an understatement)U.S Nationals score as proof. The grand myths and false evaluation of what he is capable of in such a field can continue, thus stroking his own massive ego and self glorification. For that he is very lucky and would indeed have much prefered to have turned in a "flawed" performance rather then having come 4th with a faultless one, while even being passed by a performance with several major miscues for a podium spot, which would have destroyed the opportunity to continue with the myths and misleading evaluation of his chances and abilities in this part of the woods.

Such myths do not exist in the rest of the World where he is the afterthought as the "bit" player he is. Only in North America, imparticular the United States of America do they exist. My personal feeling is the reason centres around him being the best American, which he is currently the best American with the continued slide of Mr. Weir, and the non-existance of a ready up and comer. Thus in order to sell the sport in the United States, where popularity and TV ratings are suffering, they have to potray their best in each singles event as being a potential World beater who can take down everyone if he is "on". They have to create false perceptions of how events play out, and what he is capable of. They also feel inclined, in this whole process, to further push him forward through things such as a ridiculous near-170 at U.S Nationals, amongst other things. It is an attempt in desperation to sell the sport in the U.S, and as he is their current best(a sad state of affairs in all honesty) in one of the 2 singles events, the need to do everything to make him out to be the next great one, even if he is not, seems to be there in full tilt.

Kittycat, this is OT, but I notice that you are posting from the same IP as Slutskayafan. Are you the third member of that particular Lysacek fan club?

(PS. In fact, Bell Canada just changed your proxy about 4:00 this afternoon.)

Mathman said:

Kittycat, this is OT, but I notice that you are posting from the same IP as Slutskayafan. Are you the third member of that particular Lysacek fan club?

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I am his younger sister as I pointed out months ago. I only venture on here occasionaly to share my innate wisdom of this great sport with the "individuals" who more constantly roam this forum, such as my brother and his friend who also post here. No none of the three of us are members of the Lysacek fan club as it would not take a rocket scientist to figure out. All the same I anyway am very objective and will give credit where it is due to any and all skaters, including the ones who are not my favorites of the first order.

If there is ever a forum party of some kind the 3 of us will all wear our matching shirts that make us honorary members of the "Lysacek is overrated club", which will contrast the shirts of the other 300 members on here who would be registered members of the "not a Mira Leung" fan club. As Mira is more likely to continue to go to Worlds as Canada's second lady(which is enough to irk people oddly as it is far from a grand feat) then Evan is likely to continue winning World medals in an improving field, the odds of frusteration of the opposing club is of a higher rate then of our own.

Thank you for clearing that up. For my part, I have no quarrel with anyone, not even Temperboy, LOL.

As for Lysacek, he either will or won't win something some day, independent of my guesses and predictions.

Mathman said:

Thank you for clearing that up. For my part, I have no quarrel with anyone, not even Temperboy, LOL.

As for Lysacek, he either will or won't win something some day, independent of my guesses and predictions.

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No problem. Glad to clarify any curiosities you had.

As for Lysacek he has already won a United States of America Championship and a Four Continents Championship so he has won "something" as it is.

Mira Leung by contrast has won nothing, yet the impression I get is a top 10 finish at this years Worlds would likely have caused such a fury these forums would have crashed due to the frantic posts in the aftermath. Her 24th finish at Worlds has seems to have caused an eery sense of contentment residing over.