Michelle&Sasha 2007-2008

kalle · May 11, 2007

Well, I am "still" a big fan of Sasha&Michelle and hoping that they will go for another season if back healthy (Michelle) and in fighting spirit.
I do not know much about COP but wonder what kind of jump layout that should be the best for them withouth any 3x3 and that would be competetive against the youngsters.
I know that many think that they will not come back but this thread is for them that still have hopes

Michelle
2 axel
3 lutz 2 toe
3 flip
3 salchow
-------2 minutes mark----
2 axel 3 toe
3 flip 2 toe 2 loop
3 lutz
-----is this possible or one double axel to much?--------

Sasha
2 axel
3 flip 2 toe
3 salchow
3 lutz
3 toe
-----two minutes mark-------
3 salchow 2 toe 2 loop
3 loop 2 toe
3 flip

Your thoughts?

chuckm · May 11, 2007

Michelle hasn't been in heavy training at all, and AFAIK, she so far has only double jumps.

Sasha hasn't tried a flip, a lutz or a loop in a long time. In her exhibition skating, she sticks to the salchow and the 2A. Even then, she sometimes singles the axel and doubles or two-foots the salchow. I don't think Sasha is anywhere near competitive shape.

Don't look for either of them this season. I think Michelle is done for good, and Sasha probably is, too, even though she says she wants to come back for the 2010 Olympics. Wanting and being able to do are two different things.

Mathman · May 11, 2007

Sadly, I think realism is on ChuckM's side. But we can dream!

Michelle's program is great! The two 2A's are OK. The program is worth 44.18 points on jump values. This would put her right in the hunt. I see you are not giving her a triple loop -- saving her hip! :agree:

The only problem I can see with this program is the 2A+3T combination. She has never done this particular combo and I am not sure that it would be any easier for Michelle than her 3T+3T (which she did quite regularly up to 2002).

Mao Asada with a triple Axel and one or two triple-triples can get a base score for jumps of over 50 points -- but she has to deliver it on the ice, not just on paper.

Sasha's program as given has eight jumping passes. But you could get it down to the required seven by combining her solo Salchow and toe loop into a 3S + 3T sequence (which is soemthing that she usually does put in her programs to bring the jump count up to seven triples without a triple/triple combo.)

With that change Sasha's jump elements total 44.61 points. :agree:

Joesitz (RIP) · May 11, 2007

This thread is enough to get 600 replies.

zephyrskates · May 11, 2007

Mathman said:
Sadly, I think realism is on ChuckM's side. But we can dream!
Sasha's program as given has eight jumping passes. But you could get it down to the required seven by combining her solo Salchow and toe loop into a 3S + 3T sequence (which is soemthing that she usually does put in her programs to bring the jump count up to seven triples without a triple/triple combo.)

is there a maximum number of jumping passes allowed? was i hallucinating again for i thought that you can fit as much as you possibly can and want to the long program in th CoP system.

i think that michelle kwan's return to competitive skating seems to be VERY bleak. i do think that she will be a great ambassador for the sport though. with regards to sasha if she can get her jumps down (which she hasn't been able to do in IMO since her 2004 worlds SP) she has a shot at the 2010 olympics. although i think that she better start training soon for the US ladies seem to have a very deep field going on the 2009 worlds and 2010 olympics. meissner, hughes, zhang, nagasu, wagner, flatt and who knows if maybe taylor, czisny or/and liang will also be contenders, but i do think that all these girls are gunning for 3 spots.. and anyone of them are talented enough and as deserving or even more deserving than sasha for a spot in the 2010 olympics.

Mathman · May 12, 2007

zephyrskates said:
is there a maximum number of jumping passes allowed?

Yes. Seven for a ladies' LP, eight for a men's.

Tinymavy15 · May 12, 2007

chuckm said:
Michelle hasn't been in heavy training at all, and AFAIK, she so far has only double jumps.

Sasha hasn't tried a flip, a lutz or a loop in a long time. In her exhibition skating, she sticks to the salchow and the 2A. Even then, she sometimes singles the axel and doubles or two-foots the salchow. I don't think Sasha is anywhere near competitive shape.

Sasha has a full arsenal of jumps right up to her last apperance in competion. She had a double loop and and i belive two lutzes and two loops in her Romeo and Juliet program. there is no need to try difficult jumps in shows... most skaters do not.

I don't think it's fair to say that michelle only has doubles. She tried some triples before the olympics, and even in Torino. i am sure that after a year she is landing at least some easy triples. Michelle said in a interview that she goes skating for the fun of it in her time off...

Fossi · May 12, 2007

I don't see either coming back. Sasha can't compete with Mao, Yu-Na, Kimmie and the young American girls. Mao and Kimmie have already beaten her once during her "prime." She could only get by on her spirals/spins for so long. Michelle was injured. I doubt she'll come back.

demarinis5 · May 12, 2007

There is no reason why Sasha cannot compete with the youngsters ( who imo are so busy trying to do 3axles and 3/3's that their other skills are sorely lacking in more ways than one.) I am just not sure Sasha wants to. Sasha was an elite skater and I believe if Sasha did not fall at Torino she would be the gold medal winner instead of silver. The youngsters are talented but so is Sasha. Imo the only current skater that comes close to Sasha's abilities is YuNa Kim. I would love to see Sasha and Michelle compete again but alas I live in the real world.

euterpe · May 12, 2007

demarinis5 said:
I believe if Sasha did not fall at Torino she would be the gold medal winner instead of silver.

Yeah, and if Kwan didn't fall in 2002, she would have won gold instead of bronze. Coulda, woulda, shoulda. Kwan had her share of clean FSs, but Sasha never had a single one, at least not in a major competition.

demarinis5 · May 12, 2007

euterpe said:
but Sasha never had a single one, at least not in a major competition.

Which one of the current ladies have???? It is not about clean
anymore it is about points.

euterpe · May 12, 2007

Kimmie Meissner skated a flawless FS when she won 2006 Worlds. She got +GOE on every element.

demarinis5 · May 12, 2007

That was it for Kimmie right.

Tinymavy15 · May 12, 2007

demarinis5 said:
. Sasha was an elite skater and I believe if Sasha did not fall at Torino she would be the gold medal winner instead of silver. .

I belive that goes without saying. Sasha had could have easily won that and every other competion she entered, esp since Irina, her main rival messed up. Shizukia's performance wasn't perfect had no triple triples. Sasha deffintly would have won if she had not fallen. Without doubt.

mizu_iro · May 12, 2007

Tinymavy15 said:
I belive that goes without saying. Sasha had could have easily won that and every other competion she entered, esp since Irina, her main rival messed up. Shizukia's performance wasn't perfect had no triple triples. Sasha deffintly would have won if she had not fallen. Without doubt.

But remember that Shizuka skated after Sasha. Had Sasha put out her first perfect program, Shizuka may as well have gone for the 3Lz-3Lo and 3S-3T. And Irina might have come out and skated with a lot more fire and determination...

You can't simply say that Sasha would have won with a perfect performance. Shizuka skated smart, and Irina skated cautiously because they knew they didn't need the triple-triples.

chuckm · May 12, 2007

Worlds 2006 was Sasha's with just a decent FS. Instead, she performed one of the worst FSs of her life and finished 3rd.

She should have won Worlds 2004 as well. After finishing 1st in the QR and 1st in the FS, she came out and skated a lifeless FS and lost to Shizuka Arakawa.

Sasha has never been able to deliver when it counted most, and Olympics 2006 was no exception.

Zuranthium · May 13, 2007

If Michelle comes back and does brilliant, even if she doesn't win, the PCS numbers will surely be a World record. Would love to see her make that kind of mark in the CoP system.

~Z

Kwanford Wife · May 14, 2007

Zuranthium said:
If Michelle comes back and does brilliant, even if she doesn't win, the PCS numbers will surely be a World record. Would love to see her make that kind of mark in the CoP system.

~Z

Absolutely... Its always so funny to me that people harp on Michelle & CoP... If healthy and motivated, she'd do fine under any system...

But again, I think Michelle has moved on and has new goals... which is very cool and something we fans lose sight of... isn't it better to rule & dominate and then translate those skills into new passions and ambitions vs. doing one big thing your entire life? We should applaud those who find something after skating...

If Sasha & Michelle come back - I'll be the first person standing in line to see those awesome jumping passes (with the exception of the 2axle - 3 toe - much prefer the 3lutz - 3 toe) but if not - I'll catch Sasha at the movies and Michelle on CSPAN and say: wow, I remember them when they were ice skaters...

Fossi · May 14, 2007

Sasha could've won without falling. Irina could've won had she not made mistakes. Kimmie would've won OGM if she skated like she did at Worlds. Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda....DIDN'T. That's the name of the game.

Kwanford Wife · May 15, 2007

Fossi said:
Sasha could've won without falling. Irina could've won had she not made mistakes. Kimmie would've won OGM if she skated like she did at Worlds. Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda....DIDN'T. That's the name of the game.

Its so sad, my true level of denial... I always "forget" just how true that is... Would have been a squeeker for her to pull off or a forgone conclusion?

Michelle&Sasha 2007-2008

kalle

chuckm

Mathman

Joesitz (RIP)

zephyrskates

Mathman

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win

Fossi

demarinis5

Gold for the Winter Prince!

euterpe

demarinis5

Gold for the Winter Prince!

euterpe

demarinis5

Gold for the Winter Prince!

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win

mizu_iro

chuckm

Zuranthium

Match Penalty

Kwanford Wife

Fossi

Kwanford Wife

Similar threads

Connect with us