A need for new rules to qualify skaters for Worlds

antmanb said:

I think they recently changed again such that the skater has to present a program that recieves a particular number of COP points (though don't quote me but i'm not sure).

Click to expand...

This would be better because it allows skaters to build up points with whatever they're good at -- basic skating, spins, or consistent easier triple jumps plus some good doubles.

Before this the senior test became either an SP or an LP (or maybe both) but it meant that to pass the senior test as a lady you have to pass the minimum jump standard for an elite level SP i.e. at least two different triples and a double axel. I'm sure they also have to present three different triples and at least 4 or 5 in the LP. The idea being that the people who pass the senior test will stand more of chance of being competitive internatioanlly. It obviously ignores the larger pool of skater who will never be elite but coudl pass their senior test.

Click to expand...

Yeah. And because other countries with deeper fields don't require 4 or 5 different triples, you can get skaters like Jennifer Don, Stephanie Rosenthal, Nana Takeda, or Alexandra Ievleva finishing top 8 in the US or Japan or medaling in Russia with only 2 or 3, on the strength of their other skating skills.

Asking for a clean senior short program, which requires a double axel and 2 different triples, would make some sense. And let them reskate an element or two afterward for the test if it isn't clean in the program.

antmanb said:

Before this the senior test became either an SP or an LP (or maybe both) but it meant that to pass the senior test as a lady you have to pass the minimum jump standard for an elite level SP i.e. at least two different triples and a double axel. I'm sure they also have to present three different triples and at least 4 or 5 in the LP. The idea being that the people who pass the senior test will stand more of chance of being competitive internatioanlly. It obviously ignores the larger pool of skater who will never be elite but coudl pass their senior test.

Click to expand...

I don't think you've ever needed more than 2 different Triples (generally Salchow and Toeloop) to pass into Seniors?

~Z

Zuranthium said:

I don't think you've ever needed more than 2 different Triples (generally Salchow and Toeloop) to pass into Seniors?

~Z

Click to expand...

Well you do (or certainly did) if you are a female skater in the UK.

I understand that the US senior test, as far as jumping is concerned, requires no triples...is that right?

Ant

gkelly said:

This would be better because it allows skaters to build up points with whatever they're good at -- basic skating, spins, or consistent easier triple jumps plus some good doubles.

Click to expand...

I agree, however, i believe that the points required are still very high and reflect senior internatioanl elite skating rather than a more level headed approach. At the end of the day the best skaters in the UK struggle to get higher than marks in the 4-5 range for PCS and the points available for spins and foot work still pale into insignificance when compared to landing triple jumps.

The UK is still desparately floundering in trying to find ways to improve the standard of skating. They've only just in recent years started getting junior skaters out on the JGP and still don't max out the number they send, where possible which can only beenfit our young skaters and prepare them for their lives as seniors. I'm hoping that having a JGP in the UK this year will make them max their event out with skaters and hopefully start encouraging the skaters more.

gkelly said:

Yeah. And because other countries with deeper fields don't require 4 or 5 different triples, you can get skaters like Jennifer Don, Stephanie Rosenthal, Nana Takeda, or Alexandra Ievleva finishing top 8 in the US or Japan or medaling in Russia with only 2 or 3, on the strength of their other skating skills.

Asking for a clean senior short program, which requires a double axel and 2 different triples, would make some sense. And let them reskate an element or two afterward for the test if it isn't clean in the program.

Click to expand...

That's exactly it - the only ladies we have at nationals are:

Jenna Mckorkell (who had no trouble with the test when she passed it as she was regularly hitting all six triples in practice at the time).
Vanessa - who has pretty reliable lower tier triples and lands flip and lutz well in practice.
Joanne Webber- who can hit all five triples in practice
And then Sarah Guppy who got grandfathered in by havign passed the old senior test - she struggles with the double axel and badly underotates the Toe and sal which are the only two triples she attempts.

There are many many more skaters out there who could put down a better performance than Sarah Guppy, and some of the other girls when they make mistakes (and they do every time) who just purely do not make it to nationals becuase NISA expects them to pass a test to a standard that would probably leave them in the top half of the draw at Europeans. That just strikes me as wrong - if the field at natioanls was 20 deep, then those 20 girls would push each other harder and harder to do better. When you com esecond to last at a senior national competition and you walk away with a bronze, how will you ever be pushed?

Ant

antmanb said:

I understand that the US senior test, as far as jumping is concerned, requires no triples...is that right?

Click to expand...

Yes, that's correct.

http://www.usfigureskating.org/content/JP_FS-Senior Free.pdf

The following elements are required:

JUMPS: At least four (4) different double or triple jumps, one of which must be a double Lutz. If the skater elects to do triple jumps, only one may be repeated in combinations or jump sequences.
Double Lutz.
Two different jump combinations consisting of two double jumps or a double and a triple jump (no turn or change of foot between jumps).

SPINS: At least four different spins (solo spins must be minimum 6 revolutions in position).
One must be a flying spin.
One must be a spin combination consisting of at least two positions and at least one change of foot (minimum 10 total revolutions).
Two additional spins.

STEPS: One serpentine step sequence of very advanced difficulty with complex sequences of turns in the field that cover the entire ice surface and include counters and rockers.
Connecting moves and steps should be demonstrated throughout the program.

Click to expand...