Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 101

Thread: Skating as an acrobatic/contorionist event

  1. #1
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    439

    Skating as an acrobatic/contorionist event

    With the increasing numbers of younger skaters doing more flexible moves skating is evolving as it always has. However, do you think skating will be enhanced by becoming more acrobatic/contorionistic in nature, or do you think it will have a negative impact on classic skating consisting of elegance and deep edges with more emphasis on skating?

    My second question is: from a safety issue, do you think there should be a limit on giving value or credit to certain moves that obviously places a skater at high risk for injury later in life or even possibly earlier? For instance, extreme back extension where the back is completely folded in half with very little space between the two halves of the back.

  2. #2
    Gadfly and Bon Vivant Mafke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,398
    Quote Originally Posted by passion View Post
    do you think skating will be enhanced by becoming more acrobatic/contorionistic in nature...?

    My second question is: from a safety issue, do you think there should be a limit on giving value or credit to certain moves that obviously places a skater at high risk for injury later in life or even possibly earlier?
    No, extreme flexibility does not enhance skating in and of itself. As for limiting risky moves, let's ban all quads (please, I mean it, they're ugly and suck the life right out of programs whether or not the skater hits them).

  3. #3
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    1,243
    Quote Originally Posted by passion View Post
    With the increasing numbers of younger skaters doing more flexible moves skating is evolving as it always has. However, do you think skating will be enhanced by becoming more acrobatic/contorionistic in nature, or do you think it will have a negative impact on classic skating consisting of elegance and deep edges with more emphasis on skating?
    It has a negative impact IMO. Too much emphasis on contorsionism. I don't want to see FS becoming a contorsionism competition on ice. But COP rewards that, unfortunately.
    Once FS evolved because of the skaters innovations, now it evolves because COP dictates strict rules. FS will evolve the way COP changes. If the Biellmann spin gives high points all skaters will do the Biellmann, and so on and so forth...
    COP blocked the natural evolution of the sport, IMO.

  4. #4
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,649
    I do think that the handwriting is on the wall as far as the future of the sport is concerned. The idea of using a well-controled edge to trace fiugres on the ice surface disappeared 20 years ago. The idea of looking pretty as a princess -- neither young people nor sports fans are interested in that any more.

    So -- yes, I think ice skating will go in the direction of more and more revolutions in jumps (they will start speaking of a "1080" instead of a triple), and more contortionist and extreme positions in spins and moves in the field.

    Adapt or die.

  5. #5
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    216
    I'm not really sure what the difference is between these elements and quads quads quads. Both are dangerous and both are becoming more and more necessary to win. If they limit these elements than they ought to the quad as well, which imo is ruining mens skating.

  6. #6
    MY TVC 1 5 SeaniBu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Watching the Wheels
    Posts
    4,984
    Quote Originally Posted by gio View Post
    COP blocked the natural evolution of the sport, IMO.
    I don't see what you mean here. ???? How did it block? I can see changed or created a evolution, where as it seemed to be devolving (taking elements away, disbanding Figures, etc..) and now it is forcing it into a direction to become more associated with other sports. This element is worth this. EOS so people aren't thinking it is just the judge liking one better than another. It still seems like "evolution" to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I do think that the handwriting is on the wall as far as the future of the sport is concerned. The idea of using a well-controled edge to trace fiugres on the ice surface disappeared 20 years ago. The idea of looking pretty as a princess -- neither young people nor sports fans are interested in that any more.

    So -- yes, I think ice skating will go in the direction of more and more revolutions in jumps (they will start speaking of a "1080" instead of a triple), and more contortionist and extreme positions in spins and moves in the field.

    Adapt or die.
    That is reality. The whole world putting importance on "pretty" is likely an issue that has caused many problems in the past. If it she pretty good, but it shouldn't matter to the score of a sport. I accept it and like FS prior and now, but I will also like it in the future too. The one thing that would make me like it the most is if there are more fans. That is my biggest hope.
    Last edited by SeaniBu; 05-17-2007 at 05:39 PM.

  7. #7
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    1,243
    Quote Originally Posted by SeaniBu View Post
    I don't see what you mean here. ???? How did it block? I can see changed or created a evolution, where as it seemed to be devolving (taking elements away, disbanding Figures, etc..) and now it is forcing it into a direction to become more associated with other sports. This element is worth this. EOS so people aren't thinking it is just the judge liking one better than another. It still seems like "evolution" to me.
    I say it blocked the natural evolution, not the evolution alone. Now FS evolves, if COP changes. Before, it were the skaters that changed the sport. Now it is all predeterminated. The skaters can't innovate FS, because they have to do what COP dictates. What I want to say is that COP controls FS evolution.
    JMO
    Last edited by gio; 05-17-2007 at 05:42 PM.

  8. #8
    Go Caroline! <3 carolinefan177's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    318

    I certainly hope not...

    As much as I enjoy seeing originality in the sport, I hope future skaters do not push themselves pass the "breaking point." I miss the classic layback bielmann spin-free spins and footwork without all of the movement, edgework, etc.
    <3

  9. #9
    MY TVC 1 5 SeaniBu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Watching the Wheels
    Posts
    4,984
    Quote Originally Posted by gio View Post
    I say it blocked the natural evolution, not the evolution alone. Now FS evolves, if COP changes. Before, it were the skaters that changed the sport. Now it is all predeterminated.
    JMO
    I see your point better now, but do wonder what one's subjectivity to "natural" would be? I would say the evolution of FS is natural in the direction it has gone due to issues and feedback and changed because of it, as naturally it would. I understand. But that is why I didn't understand the comment. I can see people saying they wish it would have evolved differently, but it is the course of it's own nature so I was unclear on your comment. Sorry.

  10. #10
    Go Caroline! <3 carolinefan177's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    318

    opps.

    I think I meant to write, "I miss the classic bielmann-free layback spins"

  11. #11
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    1,243
    Quote Originally Posted by SeaniBu View Post

    That is reality. The whole world putting importance on "pretty" is likely an issue that has caused many problems in the past. If it she pretty good, but it shouldn't matter to the score of a sport. I accept it and like FS prior and now, but I will also like it in the future too. The one thing that would make me like it the most is if there are more fans. That is my biggest hope.
    But it hasn't changed at all! If a skater is pretty it is still an advantage. Is Mao ugly??? Is Yu Na ugly??? Is Kimmie ugly?? Are Caro, Miki, Alissa, Megan, Kiira, Susanna, Sarah ugly?? Are they sloppy??
    They are all like models. The way they prepare their faces and dresses.

    The "only" one that isn't really pretty and is sloppy was heavily criticized in all FS forums and she doesn't have the favors of the judges at all. You all know who I'm talking about.

    Right or wrong, but beauty in FS still counts!!
    Last edited by gio; 05-17-2007 at 05:52 PM.

  12. #12
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    1,243
    Quote Originally Posted by SeaniBu View Post
    so I was unclear on your comment. Sorry.
    No problem SeaniBu!

  13. #13
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    238
    Quote Originally Posted by passion View Post
    With the increasing numbers of younger skaters doing more flexible moves skating is evolving as it always has. However, do you think skating will be enhanced by becoming more acrobatic/contorionistic in nature, or do you think it will have a negative impact on classic skating consisting of elegance and deep edges with more emphasis on skating?

    My second question is: from a safety issue, do you think there should be a limit on giving value or credit to certain moves that obviously places a skater at high risk for injury later in life or even possibly earlier? For instance, extreme back extension where the back is completely folded in half with very little space between the two halves of the back.
    I personally like "classical skating consisting of elegance and deep edges with emphasis on skating" because I believe it always important to value the basics. I believe that a lot of FS fans, coaches, and judges pay greatest respect towards skaters who have such qualities (if she/he has the other required elements such as jumps and spins). But if the skater doesn't have those qualities but has only jumps, she/he would be severely criticized even when she/he wins the game. Especially, for a long-term career as a pro skater, these basic qualities appear to be more important than having difficult jumps which can be lost in years.

    In terms of risks for injuries, the 'extreme' moves are not really dangerous for skaters who have the greatest flexibility. If they can do it, I think it fine that they are acknowledged. Yes, this may bring less flexible skaters into a disadvantageous position and I do understand your concerns. But what I think good about figure skating is that it is kind of 'multi-dimensional.' Each skater has strengths in some areas, and weaknesses in other areas. So if they cannot do it, they can still do what they can do
    Last edited by morninglight; 05-17-2007 at 06:11 PM.

  14. #14
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,649
    Quote Originally Posted by gio View Post
    Right or wrong, but beauty in FS still counts!!
    I do, however, think we are getting more broad minded in our standards of beauty. The list you gave of "pretty" skaters -- they're all different, all pretty in different ways. I think this is progress.

  15. #15
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    JPN
    Posts
    204
    "classic bielmann-free layback spins"
    "classical skating consisting of elegance and deep edges"

    Why don't you just say "I like Kwan."

    I strongly believe difficulty should be rewarded accordingly.
    Difficulty can be judged objectiely, but "elegance" is not.
    Kwan can't win under the new system, because CoP is more objective and "fair".

Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •